|
|
От
|
Pout
|
|
|
К
|
Pout
|
|
|
Дата
|
04.09.2003 12:55:06
|
|
|
Рубрики
|
Прочее; Россия-СССР;
|
|
Добавление к полемике. Земсков за рубежом
==============
Pro et Contra
>
> http://situation.ru/app/j_art_71.htm
> О публикациях в журнале "Социс"
> С. Максудов
> С большим опозданием мне удалось познакомиться с полемикой,
развернувшейся в журнале "Социс" и других изданиях по проблеме
численности репрессированных в советское время. Речь идет о публикациях
Виктора Земскова в "Социс" (в частности, 1992, ? 6) и его же статье
"Политические репрессии в СССР (1917-1990 гг.)" ("Россия XXI" 1994. ? 1)
и о статье Льва Разгона "Ложь под видом статистики" ("Столица", 1992. ?
8).
>
> http://situation.ru/app/j_art_72.htm
> К вопросу о масштабах репрессий в СССР
> В. Земсков
> Ответ на статью С. Максудова
>
============
хорошее дополнение к полемике - недавний постинг с ВИФа с указанием
целого ряда ссылок на свежие зарубежные публикации и на интернет-ресурсы
От Максим Гераськин
К All
Дата 08.08.2003 18:18:43
Рубрики WWII;
Земсков за рубежом
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
http://phorum.icelord.net/read.php?f=11&i=25683&t=25683
Итак, после того как Земсков в 1991 году по открытым архивным документам
начал публиковать свои работы
(повторю:
В.Н.Земсков. ГУЛАГ (историко-социологический аспект) // Социологические
исследования. 1991, ?6-7.
В.Н.Земсков. Заключенные в 1930-е годы: социально-демографические
проблемы // Отечественная история. 1997, ?4.
В.Н.Земсков. "Кулацкая ссылка" в 30-е годы // Социологические
исследования. 1991, ?10.
В.Н.Земсков. Судьба "кулацкой ссылки" // Отечественная история. 1994,
?1.)
на западе сильно заинтересовались открытыми архивами наших спецслужб
(у них кроме захваченных немцами во время ВОВ областных архивов НКВД
ничего кроме догадок не было), и прислали в Россию двух своих спецов -
J. Arch Getty и Gabor T. Rittersporn'а.
Из работ Rittersporn'а. в сети чаще всего цитируется: Rittersporn G.
Stalinist Simplifications and Soviet Complications. Social Tensions and
Political Conflicts in the USSR 1933-1953. - Harwood Academic
Publishers, 1991.
Персональная страничка
Arch Getty http://www.history.ucla.edu/getty/
на сайте калифорнийского университета(Department of History).
Немного оттуда (у каждого своя мечта:):
His books and articles on the Stalin period of Russian history have been
published in the US, England, France, Germany, Japan and Russia. In
1992, his dream came true and he was able to use formerly secret police
archives to publish exact data on the number of Stalin's victims.
(Everyone has their own dreams...) He now spends 1-2 months per year in
Moscow working in the political archives of the former Soviet Communist
Party, eating cabbages, watching coups, engaging in currency
speculation, and shivering in unheated reading rooms.
Его книги и статьи о Сталинском периоде русской истории были
опубликованы в США, Англии, Франции, Германии, Японии и России. В 1992
году сбылась его мечта и он смог опубликовать данные из архивов бывшей
спецслужбы о количестве сталинских жертв.(у каждого своя мечта:).
:
Ну и далее его регалии
Getty is a Research Fellow of the Russian State Humanities University
(Moscow), and has been Senior Fellow of the Harriman Institute (Columbia
University), and the Davis Center (Harvard University), as well as
Senior Visiting Scholar at the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow. He
is currently a co-investigator with the Stalin Era Research and Archives
Project of the University of Toronto on a project to analyze and publish
the secret reports from the Soviet secret police to the Politburo on the
moods of the population during the Stalin period.
His research has been supported by the American Council of Learned
Societies, the National Endowment for the Humanities, the Fulbright
Foundation, the International Research and Exchanges Board, and the
University of California Humanities Research Institute. He is founder
and Director of Praxis International, a non-profit foundation that
facilitates research travel to Russia, and arranges archival access
there for western scholars. In 1993-94 he organized and directed the
Moscow Study Center of the University of California Education Abroad
Program
Приехав в Москву, J. Arch Getty и Gabor T. Rittersporn , естественно,
немедленно получили Земсковым по башке (Или были жутко запуганы
Лигачевым) и получили возможность покопаться в архивах НКВД(по
проторенным Земсковым тропам).
Ребята оказались на редкость порядочны, и не только подтвердили данные
Земскова, но даже взяли его в соавторы. Так родилась их СТАТЬЯ в
American Historical Review в 1993 году:
J. Arch Getty, Gabor T. Rittersporn, and Viktor N. Zemskov, "Victims of
the Soviet Penal System in the Pre-War Years: A First Approach on the
Basis of Archival Evidence," American Historical Review 98/4 (October
1993):
Полностью СТАТЬЯ здесь:
http://www.etext.org/Politics/Staljin/Staljin/articles/AHR/AHR.html
Так вот ныне в забугорных университетах изучают статистику ГУЛага по
этой СТАТЬЕ, т.е. по Земскову!
Например, ссылки на СТАТЬЮ в списках рекомендуемой литературы на сайтах
соответствующих университетов:
Emory University,
The Harriman Institute Columbia University
Colloquium on Soviet History
http://www.columbia.edu/~mlv2/g8364.htm
The Rise and Fall of the Soviet Union. Prof. Mark von Hagen
http://www.columbia.edu/~mlv2/w3361.htm
Northeastern University , Boston,
http://www.history.neu.edu/fac/burds/resource.htm
University of Connecticut | Department of History
http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~wwwhist/syllabi_f00/syll401.htm
Simon Fraser University, Canada
http://www.lib.sfu.ca/researchhelp/subjectguides/hist/classes/hist023419
.htm
UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO AT MISSISSAUGA
DEPARTMENT OF POLITICAL SCIENCE
http://www.erin.utoronto.ca/academic/polisci/204.html
Universitat Konstanz
http://www.uni-konstanz.de/osteuropa-geschichte/OEDver_sose03.html
The University of Tokyo - шикарно смотрится среди иероглифов
http://www.j.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~shiokawa/works/zentaishugi.htm
Исторический семинар фрайбургского университета:
Historisches Seminar der Universitat Freiburg
http://www.geschichte.uni-freiburg.de/neutatz/lv/ws2002/vl_lit05.html
http://www.geschichte.uni-freiburg.de/neutatz/lv/ws2002/vl_fol13.html
Universitetet i Oslos
http://folk.uio.no/christie/dokumenter/Straffens%20geografi%20Dansk.html
University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
http://www.uwm.edu/Course/448-343/index4.html
и с графиками:
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
http://www.unc.edu/courses/2003fall/hist/186b/001/victims.htm
University of Utah
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/leninist-international/1999-July/00
4561.html
Есть ссылки и на другие работы:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/sota/pohlbiblio.html
Zemskov, V.N. "Massovoe osvobzhdenie spetsposelentsev i ssyllnynkh
(1954-1960 gg.)" [Massive liberation of special settlers and exiles
(1954-1960)]. Sotsiologicheskie issledovaniia, no. 1, 1991. An account
of the release of special settlers during the six years after Stalin's
death. It contains a number of tables illustrating the steady decrease
of special settlers in the mid 1950s due to releases and amnesties.
Zemskov, V.N. "Zakliuchenye, spetsposelentsy, ssyl'noposelentsy, ssylne,
i vyslanye" [Prisoners, special settlers, exiled settlers, exiles, and
banishees]. Istoriia SSSR, no. 5, 1991. This article contains three
tables dealing with the number of people in Gulag labor camps, labor
colonies, prisons, and special settlements. The table on special
settlers is accompanied by a set of explanatory footnotes. The bulk of
the article consists of a comprehensive listing of the geographic
location of special settlers by contingent on 1 January 1953.
Zemskov, V.N. " Gulag (istoriko-sotsiologicheskii aspekt)" [Gulag
(historical-socialogical aspect)]. Sotsiologicheskie issledovaniia, nos.
6 and 7, 1991. This two-part article is a comprehensive description of
the Gulag's corrective labor camps, corrective labor colonies, and
prisons from 1934 to 1953. It provides a great deal of information on
the composition of the Gulag's prisoners. This article contains tables
that break down the Gulag population by nationality, gender, type of
crime, age, and other criteria.
Zemskov, V.N. "Kulatskaia ssylka v 30-e gody" [Kulak exile in the 30s].
Sotsiologicheskie issledovaniia, no. 10, 1991. This article is a
comprehensive description of the kulaks exiled to special settlements
during the collectivization of agriculture from 1929 to 1931. It does
for the kulaks in special settlements what "Gulag
(istoriko-sotsiologicheskii aspekt)" does for corrective labor camps and
corrective labor colonies.
А вот книга Ludo Martens'а:
Another view of Stalin Другая история Сталина (Привет Валянскому и
Калюжному :))
http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/node121.html
Then the USSR split up and Gorbachev's disciples were able to grab the
Soviet archives. In 1990, the Soviet historians Zemskov and Dugin
published the unedited statistics for the Gulag. They contain the
arrivals and departures, right down to the last person.
Unexpected consequence: These accounting books made it possible to
remove Conquest's scientific mask.
In 1934, Conquest counted 5 million political detainees. In fact there
were between 127,000 and 170,000. The exact number of all detained in
the work camps, political and common law combined, was 510,307. The
political prisoners formed only 25 to 35 per cent of the detainees. To
the approximately 150,000 detainees, Conquest added 4,850,000. Small
detail!
Annually, Conquest estimated an average of 8 million detainees in the
camps. And Medvedev 12 to 13 million. In fact, the number of political
detainees oscillated between a minimum of 127,000 in 1934 and a maximum
of 500,000 during the two war years, 1941 and 1942. The real figures
were therefore multiplied by a factor of between 16 and 26. When the
average number of detainees was somewhere between 236,000 and 315,000
political detainees, Conquest `invented' 7,700,000 extra! Marginal
statistical error, of course. Our school books, our newspapers, do not
give the real figure of around 272,000, but the horror of 8,000,000!
Здесь Zemskov'ым по башке получает Р. Конквест, с которого от этого
слетает маска научности:
А вот еще одна книга- Ложь в истории СССР:
Mario Sousa, Lies concerning the history of the Soviet Union, June 15
1998
http://www.etext.org/Politics/Staljin/Staljin/articles/lies/lies.html
Gorbachev opens the archives
Горбачев открывает архивы, результаты публикуют в малотиражных научных
изданиях, практически неизвестных широкой публике, и их тотально
игнорируют СМИ и у нас и на Западе. Горбачевская свободная пресса,
бившаяся в истерии по поводу репрессии, повторяя ложь Конквеста и
Солженицына, внезапно потеряла всякий интерес к теме - одновременно с
публикацией реальных цифр:
http://www.etext.org/Politics/Staljin/Staljin/articles/lies/node13.html
The collection of fantasy figures set out above, the product of
extremely well paid fabrication, appeared in the bourgeois press in the
1960s, always presented as true facts ascertained through the
application of scientific method.
Behind these fabrications lurked the western secret services, mainly the
CIA and MI5. The impact of the mass media on public opinion is so great
that the figures are even today believed to be true by large sections of
the population of Western countries.
This shameful situation has worsened. In the Soviet Union itself, where
Solzhenitsyn and other well-known 'critics' such as Andrei Sakharov and
Roy Medvedev could find nobody to support their many fantasies, a
significant change took place in 1990. In the new 'free press' opened up
under Gorbachev, everything opposed to socialism was hailed as positive,
with disastrous results. Unprecedented speculative inflation began to
take place in the numbers of those who were alleged to have died or been
imprisoned under socialism, now all mixed up into a single group of tens
of millions of 'victims' of the communists.
The hysteria of Gorbachev's new free press brought to the fore the lies
of Conquest and Solzhenitsyn. At the same time Gorbachev opened up the
archives of the Central Committee to historical research, a demand of
the free press. The opening up of the archives of the Central Committee
of the Communist Party is really the central issue in this tangled tale,
this for two reasons: partly because in the archives can be found the
facts that can shed light on the truth. But even more important is the
fact that those speculating wildly on the number of people killed and
imprisoned in the Soviet Union had all been claiming for years that the
day the archives were opened up the figures they were citing would be
confirmed. Every one of these speculators in the dead and incarcerated
claimed that this would be the case: Conquest, Sakharov, Medvedev, and
all the rest. But when the archives were opened up and research reports
based on the actual documents began to be published a very strange thing
happened. Suddenly both Gorbachev's free press nor the speculators in
dead and incarcerated completely lost interest in the archives.
The results of the research carried out on the archives of the Central
Committee by Russian historians Zemskov, Dougin and Xlevnjuk, which
began to appear in scientific journals as from 1990, went entirely
unremarked. The reports containing the results of this historical
research went completely against the inflationary current as regards the
numbers who were being claimed by the 'free press' to have died or been
incarcerated. Therefore their contents remained unpublicised. The
reports were published in low-circulation scientific journals
practically unknown to the public at large. Reports of the results of
scientific research could hardly compete with the press hysteria, so the
lies of Conquest and Solzhenitsyn continued to gain the support of many
sectors of the former Soviet Union's population. In the West also, the
reports of the Russian researchers on the penal system under Stalin were
totally ignored on the front pages of newspapers, and by TV news
broadcasts. Why?2
А все дело в том, что уже в 1997-98 годах количество заключенных в
США(богатейшей стране мира, потребляющей 60% мировых ресурсов), как в
абсолютных цифрах так и на душу населения превысило достижения
сталинского СССР. Уусловия заключения в США толком никому неизвестны:
http://www.etext.org/Politics/Staljin/Staljin/articles/lies/node18.html
In the United States of America, for example, a country of 252 million
inhabitants (in 1996), the richest country in the world, which consumes
60% of the world resources, how many people are in prison? What is the
situation in the US, a country not threatened by any war and where there
are no deep social changes affecting economic stability?
In a rather small news item appearing in the newspapers of August 1997,
the FLT-AP news agency reported that in the US there had never
previously been so many people in the prison system as the 5.5 million
held in 1996. This represents an increase of 200,000 people since 1995
and means that the number of criminals in the US equals 2.8% of the
adult population. These data are available to all those who are part of
the North American department of justice. (Bureau of Justice Statistics
Home page, http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/ ) . The number of convicts in
the US today is 3 million higher than the maximum number ever held in
the Soviet Union! In the Soviet Union there was a maximum of 2.4% of the
adult population in prison for their crimes - in the US the figure is
2.8%, and rising! According to a press release put out by the US
department of justice on 18 January 1998, the number of convicts in the
US in 1997 rose by 96,100.
As far as the Soviet labour camps were concerned, it is true that the
regime was harsh and difficult for the prisoners, but what is the
situation today in the prisons of the US, which are rife with violence,
drugs, prostitution, sexual slavery (290,000 rapes a year in US
prisons). Nobody feels safe in US prisons! And this today, and in a
society richer than ever before!
--------------------------