От	Василий Фофанов
К	All
Дата	13.04.2004 17:20:29
Рубрики	ВВС; Локальные конфликты;

А что именно за вертушку сбили в Ираке?

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В некоторых местах утверждают что Н-53, это ж вроде здоровенная машина, полста человек?

С уважением, Василий Фофанов http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov

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От	Дмитрий Адров
К	Василий Фофанов (13.04.2004 17:20:29)
Дата	13.04.2004 19:06:41

Сообщение АР про вертолет

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Здравия желаю!

Про судьбу экипажа и груз, если таковой был, ничего не ясно.

BC-ME-GEN--Iraq, 4th Ld-Writethru,1257¤

U.S. troops deploy outside Najaf; helicopter down near Fallujah¤


By DENIS D. GRAY


Associated Press Writer


NAJAF, Iraq (AP) _ A 2,500-strong U.S. force, backed by tanks and artillery, pushed to the outskirts of the Shiite holy city of Najaf on Tuesday for a showdown with a radical cleric. A U.S. military helicopter went down near Fallujah but there were no reported injuries to the crew, a Marine commander said.

An insurgent said he hit the chopper with a rocket-propelled grenade, although Marine Lt. Col. Brennan Byrne said it was not known what caused the Sikorsky H-53 to go down.

Troops removed those on board, and "there is no indication the crew was injured," Byrne said. He was not certain how many were aboard.

The team that secured the craft was ambushed by gunmen using small weapons, RPGs and mortars, and it suffered casualties, Byrne said, but he would not give details.

Witnesses told The Associated Press that four U.S. soldiers were shot by insurgents at the site about 20 kilometers (12 miles) east of Fallujah in the village of Zawbaa.

Another team later blew up the aircraft to prevent it from being looted, he said.

On Monday, meanwhile, Gen. John Abizaid, the top commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East, said he has asked U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to adjust the U.S. troop rotation into and out of Iraq this spring so that U.S. commanders can have the use of perhaps 10,000 more soldiers than they otherwise would have.

On the way to Najaf, the U.S. force's 80-vehicle convoy was ambushed Monday night by gunmen firing small arms and setting of roadside bombs north of the city. One soldier was killed and an American civilian contractor was wounded, officers in the convoy said.

The top U.S. commander in Iraq, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, said their mission was to "capture or kill" radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Units set up a cordon on approaches to the city, barring militiamen from leaving.

Iraqi leaders launched hurried negotiations aimed at averting a U.S. assault on the city, site of the holiest Shiite site, the Imam Ali Shrine. Al-Sadr was photographed by Associated Press Television News leaving the shrine Tuesday.

The sons of Iraq's three grand ayatollahs _ including the most powerful one, Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani _ met al-Sadr Monday night in his Najaf office and assured him of their opposition to any U.S. strike.

"They agreed not to allow any hostile act against Sayyed Moqtada al-Sadr and the city of Najaf," said a person at the meeting, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The delegation also was reportedly trying to work out a compromise to prevent a U.S. attack.

Col. Dana J.H. Pittard, the commander of the force, said his troops were aware that a "single shot in Najaf" by U.S. soldiers could outrage Iraq's powerful Shiite majority.

"Look at this as the Shiite Vatican," Pittard said before the deployment.

The grand ayatollahs _ older, moderate leaders with immense influence among Shiites _ have long kept the young, fiercely anti-American al-Sadr at arm's length. The dispatch of the delegation reflected the eagerness to avoid bloodshed in Najaf and the new influence that the uprising by the al-Mahdi Army's militia has brought al-Sadr.

In a concession to American demands, al-Sadr ordered his militiamen out of police stations and government buildings in Najaf and the nearby cities of Karbala and Kufa. Police were back in their stations and on patrols, while al-Sadr black-garbed gunmen largely stayed out of sight.

But the militia rebuffed a U.S. demand to disband.

Earlier Tuesday, al-Sadr militiamen based in the main mosque in the nearby city of Kufa opened fire on a passing patrol of Spanish forces, prompting a short gunbattle.

Overnight, a mortar was fired at the Spanish base between Kufa and Najaf, and Spanish forces repelled an attack on a nearby water distillation plant.

While a cease-fire has kept Fallujah relatively calm for four days, the area between the besieged city and Baghdad has seen heavy clashes by insurgents and U.S. forces. An Apache helicopter was shot down Sunday in nearby Abu Ghraib, killing its two crewmembers.

Before Tuesday's helicopter crash, a U.S. convoy was attacked near the same site, and two Humvees and a truck were burning, said witnesses, who also reported U.S. casualties.

The U.S. military said about 70 Americans and 700 insurgents had been killed this month, the bloodiest since the fall of Baghdad a year ago with U.S.-led forces fighting on three fronts: against Sunni insurgents in Fallujah, Shiite militiamen in the south and gunmen in Baghdad and on its outskirts.

More than 600 Iraqis have been killed in Fallujah since the siege began on April 5, said the head of the city hospital, Rafie al-Issawi. Most of the dead registered at hospitals and clinics were women, children and elderly, he said.

In all, about 880 Iraqis have been killed in the violence, according to an AP count based on statements by Iraqi hospital officials, U.S. military statements and Iraqi police.

Another toll from the week's violence: more than 40 foreigners reportedly were taken hostage by insurgents, although a dozen had been released Sunday and Monday. Those still believed held included three Japanese and truck driver Thomas Hamill of Macon, Miss., whose captors had threatened to kill them.

Four Italians working as private guards for DTS Security, a U.S. company, were reported missing in Iraq, the ANSA news agency quoted the Foreign Ministry as saying Tuesday. An Arab satellite TV network said the four were kidnapped by insurgents near Fallujah and showed video of them in a room surrounded by gunmen wearing Arab headscarves.

Eight Ukrainian and Russian employees of a Russian energy company who were kidnaped in Baghdad were freed Tuesday, the Russian Foreign Ministry said. Seven Chinese were freed Monday after being held for a day, China's official news agency said. Two reportedly were injured.

Two U.S. soldiers and seven employees of a U.S. contractor, including Hamill, were missing after an attack Friday on a convoy west of Baghdad, Sanchez said.

The recent burst of violence has exposed weaknesses in Iraq's U.S.-trained security forces. A battalion of the Iraqi army refused to fight in Fallujah, Sanchez said. And some police defected to al-Sadr's forces, Abizaid said.

In an effort to toughen the Iraqi forces, Abizaid said the U.S. military will reach out to former senior members of Saddam Hussein's disbanded army _ a reversal in strategy. The military has tried to avoid relying on top officials from the ousted regime.

"It's ... very clear that we've got to get more senior Iraqis involved _ former military types involved in the security forces," he said. "In the next couple of days, you'll see a large number of senior officers being appointed to key positions in the ministry of defense and the Iraqi joint staff and in Iraqi field commands."

___

AP correspondents Abdul Hussein Yousef in Najaf and Abdul-Qader Saadi in Fallujah contributed to this report.


Дмитрий Адров

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От	МиГ-31
К	Дмитрий Адров (13.04.2004 19:06:41)
Дата	13.04.2004 19:16:01

Правильная тактика.

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The team that secured the craft was ambushed by gunmen using small weapons, RPGs and mortars, and it suffered casualties, Byrne said, but he would not give details.
С уважением, МиГ-31 (тоже эсквайр).

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От	Константин Дегтярев
К	Василий Фофанов (13.04.2004 17:20:29)
Дата	13.04.2004 17:31:15

Re: А что...

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Да, точно, похоже что Си Стэльон. Как пишут "ранее ошибочно принятый за Апач". На фотке вроде тоже он (я ее уже постил, но не читал и не смотрел внимательно).

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1131190,00.html


Константин Дегтярев, http://fershal.narod.ru

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От	SerB
К	Василий Фофанов (13.04.2004 17:20:29)
Дата	13.04.2004 17:30:18

Вроде действительно 53-й

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Приветствия!

http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews.shtml?/20040413171822.shtml

Удачи - SerB

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От	Василий Фофанов
К	SerB (13.04.2004 17:30:18)
Дата	13.04.2004 17:35:05

Театр абсурда

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>Экипаж вертолета при падении не пострадал, однако после крушения предпочел взорвать машину, чтобы она не досталась иракской стороне, говорится в сообщении американского командования.

Видимо экипаж забыли предупредить что "иракская сторона" уж год почти как совпадает с американской :) Это ж надо нести подобную ахинею...


С уважением, Василий Фофанов http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov

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От	И. Кошкин
К	Василий Фофанов (13.04.2004 17:35:05)
Дата	13.04.2004 17:36:33

"Экипаж подорвал себя гранатами и остатками топлива"((( (-)

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От	Дмитрий Адров
К	И. Кошкин (13.04.2004 17:36:33)
Дата	13.04.2004 19:08:48

Экипаж себя не подрывал

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Здравия желаю!


Как я понял, и вертолет подорвали уже другие люди.

Тот, кто переводит сообщение АР уже утек домой, а девушка - выпускающий редактор только руками разводит, когда я ей указываю на неточности.

Дмитрий Адров

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