От Максим
К Администрация (И.Т.)
Дата 21.05.2002 19:02:09
Рубрики Прочее;

Еще о Холокосте - бассейн, поляки подтвердили Лейхтера, Треблинка и захоронения

3 статьи в догонку по Холокосту. Первая рассказывает об исследовании территории Треблинки и не обнаружении никаких следов массовых захоронений, даже каких либо подвижек и "потревожения" почвы вообще - тоесть почву не вскрывали нигде ВООБЩЕ.

Вторая рассказывает о бассейне (в дополнение к ранее упоминаемому мной стадиону, борделю, прочем) в Аушвице.

Третья является отчетом Краковского Судебно-медицинского (forensic) Института, который подтверждает данные Лейхтера.


1: Treblinka Ground Radar Examination Finds No Trace of Mass Graves


A detailed forensic examination of the site of the wartime Treblinka camp, using sophisticated electronic ground radar, has found no evidence of mass graves there.

For six days in October 1999, an Australian team headed by Richard Krege, a qualified electronics engineer, carried out an examination of the soil at the site of the former Treblinka II camp in Poland, where, Holocaust historians say, more than half a million Jews were put to death in gas chambers and then buried in mass graves.

According to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), for example, "a total of 870,000 people" were killed and buried at Treblinka between July 1942 and April 1943. Then, between April and July 1943, the hundreds of thousands of corpses were allegedly dug up and burned in batches of 2,000 or 2,500 on large grids made of railway ties.

Krege's team used an $80,000 Ground Penetration Radar (GPR) device, which sends out vertical radar signals that are visible on a computer monitor. GPR detects any large-scale disturbances in the soil structure to a normal effective depth of four or five meters, and sometimes up to ten meters. (GPR devices are routinely used around the world by geologists, archeologists, and police.) In its Treblinka investigation, Krege's team also carried out visual soil inspections, and used an auger to take numerous soil core samples.

The team carefully examined the entire Treblinka II site, especially the alleged "mass graves" portion, and carried out control examinations of the surrounding area. They found no soil disturbance consistent with the burial of hundreds of thousands of bodies, or even evidence that the ground had ever been disturbed. In addition, Krege and his team found no evidence of individual graves, bone remains, human ashes, or wood ashes.

"From these scans we could clearly identify the largely undisturbed horizontal stratigraphic layering, better known as horizons, of the soil under the camp site," says the 30-year old Krege, who lives in Canberra. "We know from scans of grave sites, and other sites with known soil disturbances, such as quarries, when this natural layering is massively disrupted or missing altogether." Because normal geological processes are very slow acting, disruption of the soil structure would have been detectable even after 60 years, Krege noted.

While his initial investigation suggests that there were never any mass graves at the Treblinka camp site, Krege believes that further work is still called for.

"Historians say that the bodies were exhumed and cremated toward the end of the Treblinka camp's use in 1943, but we found no indication that any mass graves ever existed," he says. "Personally, I don't think there was an extermination camp there at all."

Krege is preparing a detailed report on his Treblinka investigation. He says that he would welcome the formation, possibly under United Nations auspices, of an international team of neutral, qualified specialists, to carry out similar investigations at the sites of all the wartime German camps.

Krege and his team are associated with, and funded by, the Adelaide Institute, a south Australia revisionist "think tank." Its director, Dr. Fredrick Töben, was jailed in Germany for seven months in 1999 for disputing Holocaust extermination claims.

(Sources: "'Vernichtungslager' Treblinka: archaelogisch betrachtet," by Ing. Richard Krege, in Vierteljarhreshefte für freie Geschichtsforschung, June 2000 [4. Jg., Heft 1], pp. 62-64; "'No Jewish mass grave' in Poland," The Canberra Times, Jan. 24, 2000, p. 6; "Poland's Jews 'not buried at Treblinka'," The Examiner [Australia], Jan. 24, 2000. [The latter two newspaper items are reprinted in facsimile in VHO-info, May 2000, p. 30.]; Information provided by Richard Krege; M. Weber and A. Allen, "Treblinka," The Journal of Historical Review, Summer 1992, pp. 133-158; "German Court Sentences Australian Holocaust Skeptic," The Journal of Historical Review, July-August 1999, pp. 2-5; Y. Arad, "Treblinka," in I. Gutman, ed., Encyclopedia of the Holocaust [New York: 1997], pp. 1481-1488.)

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n3p20_radar.html


2: The Auschwitz Swimming Pool

Robert FAURISSON 20 July 2001
(with addendum of 27 July)


The German-Australian revisionist Frederick Toben has brought to our attention the fact that today, beside the swimming pool at Auschwitz I, there stands a signboard bearing, in Polish, English and Hebrew, a notice intended to have the visitor believe that the pool was in fact a simple reservoir for the fire brigade. It reads as follows:

Fire brigade reservoir built in the form of a swimming pool, probably in early 1944.

He asks when exactly this signboard appeared. I myself have no idea but the inscription is just as fallacious as any number of the Auschwitz museum's other allegations or explanations. One fails to see why the Germans, rather than settling for an ordinary reservoir, would have made one in the fashion of a swimming pool... complete with diving board.

The pool was a pool. It was meant for the detainees. Marc Klein mentions it at least twice in his recollections of the camp. In an article entitled 'Auschwitz I Stammlager' he wrote:

The working hours were modified on Sundays and holidays, when most of the kommandos were at leisure. Roll call was at around noon; evenings were devoted to rest and to a choice of cultural and sporting activities. Football, basketball, and water-polo matches (in an open-air pool built within the perimeter by detainees) attracted crowds of onlookers. It should be noted that only the very fit and well-fed, exempt from the harsh jobs, could indulge in these games which drew the liveliest applause from the masses of other detainees (De l'Université aux camps de concentration: Télmorgnages strasbourgeois, Paris, les Belles-lettres, 1947, p. 453).

In his booklet Observations et réflexions sur les camps de concentration nazis he further wrote:

Auschwitz I was made up of 28 blocks built of stone laid out in three parallel rows between which ran paved streets. A third street ran the length of the quadrangle and was planted with birch trees, the Birkenhaller intended as a walkway for the detainees, with benches; there also was an open air swimming pool (booklet of 32 pages printed in Caen, 1948, p. 10; its text is a reproduction of the author's article published in Etudes germaniques, n° 3, 1948, pp. 244-275).

M. Klein, professor at the Strasbourg medicine faculty, took care to point out that his first statement had been submitted "to the reading and scrutiny of Robert Weil, professor of science at Sarreguemines lycée," who had been interned in the same camps as himself (p. 455).

In 1985, at Ernst Zündel's first trial in Toronto, I spoke of M. Klein's recollections but the real specialist on the history of the Auschwitz I swimming pool was at that time none other than the Swedish revisionist Dietlieb Felderer. If I remember correctly, the Canadian press headlined an article on his testimony about it. Moreover, in his writings he often returns to this and other quite concrete, quite precise subjects just as disquieting for the supporters of the exterminationist argument.

N.B. The water of the swimming pool can obviously be used by firemen in case of emergency. In his booklet, M. Klein wrote that "there were firemen at the camp with very modern equipment" (p. 9). Amongst the things that he had not expected to find on arriving, in June 1944, "at a camp whose sinister reputation was known to the whole world thanks to the Allied radio broadcasts," one may note, for the detainees, "a hospital with sections specialised in line with the most modern hospital practices" (p. 4), "vast and well fitted-out wash houses along with communal W.C.'s built according to the modern principles of sanitary hygiene" (p. 10), "the micro-wave delousing process which had just been created" (p. 14), "the mechanical bakery" (p. 15) the legal aid for the detainees (pp. 16-17), the existence of "dietetic cooking" for some of the sick, with "special soups and even a special bread" (p. 26), "a library where numerous reference works, classic textbooks, and periodicals could be found" (p. 27), the daily rolling by, next to the camp, of "the Krakow-Berlin express" (p. 29), a cinema, a cabaret, an orchestra (p. 31), etc. M. Klein also notes the horrible aspects of life in the camp and all the rumours, including the "horrific stories" of gassings which he seems not really to have believed until after the war, and then only thanks to the testimonies in the "various trials of war criminals" (p. 7).

Addendum of 27 July. A wartime detainee and, like M. Klein and R. Weil, a Jew himself, confirmed, in a short testimony written in 1997 entitled "Une Piscine à Auschwitz," that he saw, in July 1944, dozens of his fellow prisoners busy at work on the said pool which, he pointed out, had "a diving board and an access ladder"; he could have added "along with three starting blocks for races." He wrote that towards the end of that month "a newsreel director had some deportees filmed swimming there." As one might expect, he enlivened his account with the regular stereotypes of the SS men's or kapos' brutality and he saw in the making both of the pool and of the film nothing but a propaganda operation. His report ends with two interesting remarks. First, that in 1997 no guide was "aware" of the pool (which nonetheless was before the guides' very eyes and of which a photograph accompanies the article: we read that this picture, showing a swimming pool full of water, was taken in that year) and that the author would like to know just where the newsreel might be today. His question is akin to those put by some revisionists: might the film not be "at the headquarters of the International Red Cross"? Doubtless he meant: at the International Tracing Service (ITS) located at Arolsen-Waldeck in Germany and operating under the direction of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), with headquarters in Geneva. Since 1978, this body has barred revisionists from its archives, which are known to be an exceptionally rich resource. For its part, the Auschwitz State Museum probably possesses documentation relevant to various aspects of this swimming pool's construction, e.g. the project, the plans, the financing, the requests for and the supply of building materials, the requisition of labourers, the inspection visits.



(Reference for this account: R. Esrail, registration no. 173295, « Une piscine à Auschwitz », in Après Auschwitz (Bulletin de l'Amicale des déportés d'Auschwitz), n° 264/octobre 1997, p. 10).

http://www.heretical.org/miscella/swimpool.html

Swimming Pool, Auschwitz Camp, June 1996. ‘Inmates from Auschwitz and surrounding camps enjoyed swimming and sunbathing beside the pool on Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Although not as popular as sports like soccer, some competition was organized where inmates from different countries of origin, and different camps, raced in individual and relay events.’ From www.air-photo.com, now off-line.


3: An official Polish report on the Auschwitz 'gas chambers'
Krakow Forensic Institute Confirms Leuchter's Findings
A recent investigation by a Polish government agency has authoritatively corroborated the findings of Fred Leuchter from his detailed 1988 on-site forensic examination of supposed German wartime extermination gas chambers. The American execution expert concluded that the "gas chambers" in the former concentration camps of Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek were never used to kill people. (On Leuchter's findings and the resulting international controversy, see his detailed Report, which is available from the IHR, as well as The Journal of Historical Review, Summer 1989 and Winter 1990-91, and the IHR Newsletter, October 1990 and January 1991.)

Concerned at the impact of Leuchter's widely-circulated Report, the Auschwitz State Museum, a Polish government agency, commissioned the Institute of Forensic Research (Instytut Ekspertyz Sadowych) of Krakow to carry out its own investigation. The result: In a carefully worded six-page internal forensic report, the Institute's experts essentially replicated Leuchter's findings and implicitly corroborated his conclusions.

Consistent with Leuchter's investigation, the Institute's specialists detected absolutely no traces of cyanide (or ferro-ferri-cyanide compound) in most of the plaster and brick samples taken from the alleged extermination gas chambers. Traces of cyanides were detected in eight samples, seven of which were rooms in Block 3 of Auschwitz main camp where -as the Institute's experts acknowledge - inmate clothing was disinfected by "gassing" with Zyklon.

A barely detectable trace of cyanide compound was found in the eighth remaining "positive" sample, which was sample No. 15 from the alleged homicidal "gas chamber" in Krema building II in Birkenau. Significantly, this is the only sample taken from any of the supposed extermination gas chambers that showed any trace of cyanide. The presence of an almost indetectable trace in this sample is entirely in keeping with Leuchter's conclusion that the room from which it was taken must have been deloused with Zyklon at one time or another.

In an apparent attempt at "damage control," the authors of the Institute's report sought to play down or negate the significance of their own findings by asserting that any cyanide traces would have disappeared long ago under the impact of the weather and the elements. This assertion is simply not true, as Leuchter and other specialists have pointed out:

Precisely speaking, it is not hydrogen cyanide itself that leaves a trace, but rather the compounds that result from the interaction of hydrogen cyanide with iron and other heavy metal ions. The resulting ferro-ferri-cyanide compounds are very stable as James Roth, chief chemist of Alpha Analytical Labs in Massachusetts, testified in the 1988 "Holocaust" trial of Ernst Zündel. Even after 45 years, the compounds would not have "weathered away."
It is not true that all of the alleged gas chambers were exposed to the elements, as the Institute's experts contend. Specifically, the entire crematory facility (Krema) I in the Auschwitz main camp, including the alleged homicidal "gas chamber" there, has been completely intact since the camp was liberated by Soviet forces in January 1945. The authors of the Krakow Institute report make no effort to explain the absence of cyanide traces in this "gas chamber." Similarly, the alleged extermination gas chamber of crematory facility (Krema) II in Birkenau is protected by the collapsed concrete ceiling, and is otherwise in its original condition.
It is worth noting that the Krakow Institute's report did not respond at all to other compelling reasons given by Leuchter for doubting the orthodox extermination story. As he points out, for example, the alleged homicidal gas chambers he examined were not properly sealed or vented for use as killing facilities.

Auschwitz State Museum officials initiated this investigation rather obviously hoping that the Institute's report would discredit Leuchter's findings and corroborate the orthodox extermination account. And just as obviously, if the Institute's report had, in fact, discredited the American engineer's conclusions, the Auschwitz State Museum and Holocaust organizations around the world would certainly have wasted no time in giving it maximum publicity.

Although neither the Auschwitz State Museum nor the Krakow Institute has (so far) made this September 1990 report public, Revisionists were nevertheless able to obtain a copy of the original document. Professor Robert Faurisson in France and Fred Leuchter in the United States were quick to cite this "Polish Leuchter Report" as corroboration of the Revisionist view of the Auschwitz extermination story. (See the IHR Newsletter, April 1991.)

Published here for the first time in English, a translation of the Krakow Institute's report follows:


First page of the September 1990 report on the forensic investigation of the alleged extermination gas chambers of Auschwitz and Birkenau conducted by a leading Polish forensic institute in response to the Leuchter Report.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

INSTITUTE OF FORENSIC RESEARCH

In the name of Prof. Dr. Jan Sehn, Krakow

Division of Forensic Toxicology
Krakow, 24 Sept. 1990
Westerplatte 9 / Code 31-033
Tel. 505-44, 592-24, 287-50
Telex 0325213 eksad
Ref. No. 720 / 90
[ rubber stamp: ]

Received at the Auschwitz State Museum,
11 Oct. 1990 / filed: I 4998

To the
State Museum in
Auschwitz-Birkenau
Re: Ref. No. I-8523/51/1860/89

The Institute of Forensic Research,
in the name of Prof. Dr. Jan Sehn, Krakow,
herewith presents this

Forensic Report,

prepared by the court-approved experts
Prof. Dr. Jan Markiewicz, Dr. Wojciech Gubala, engineer Jerzy Labedz, and Beate Trzcinska, M.S.

In response to publications and court proceedings in the West, according to which Zyklon B gas was not used to kill people in the Auschwitz concentration camp, the Auschwitz [State] Museum asked us to take samples of wall plaster from the gas chambers and analyze them for the presence of hydrogen cyanide.

On the basis of an agreement in writing and by telephone, the team of experts of the Institute of Forensic Research, consisting of Dr. Wojciech Gubala and engineer J. Labedz, arrived on 20 February 1990 at the camp and Museum in Auschwitz-Birkenau for the purpose of taking samples for investigation, in order to determine the presence of hydrocyanic acid compounds.

In accordance with agreed-upon procedure, the material samples, consisting primarily of pieces of wall plaster and brick, were taken in the presence of Dr. Franciszek Piper, senior curator of the Museum, from the rooms of Block 3, from crematory [building] 1 in Auschwitz [main camp], as well as from crematories [buildings] 2, 3 and 5 in Birkenau. Wall plaster samples were also removed from Block 11 in Auschwitz [main camp] in the presence of Piotr Setkiewicz, M.S., an employee of the Museum.

Altogether, 22 samples were removed, including two control samples from a distant place where contamination with HCN [hydrocyanic acid] would not be possible.

Of the 20 samples removed, ten were taken from rooms in Block 3 in Auschwitz [main camp] (from rooms 1, 2, 3 and 4) where inmate clothing was disinfected with Zyklon B. According to our information, these rooms were white- washed during the war years. In some spots, a blue or dark blue stain shows through.

Five samples were also taken from the ruins of the gas chamber of crematory [building] 2 in Birkenau, as well as one sample each from the ruins of crematory [building] 5 and the wall of crematory [building] 1 in Auschwitz [main camp]. No samples were taken from the ruins of crematory [building] 4, because the 30-40 centimeter high wall structure there was reconstructed after the war.

In addition, the above-mentioned employees of the Institute of Forensic Research were given an envelope containing about 150 grams of human hair (marked PMO II-6-476), which had been obtained by a Museum employee, as well as four pieces of pulverized horse hair material ["wlosianki"] which had likewise been obtained by an employee of the Museum (marked PMO II-6-477 to 480).

Individual samples of the secured material (wall plaster, brick, hair and horse hair material) were reduced to small particles and placed in a micro-diffusion chamber. These samples were then treated with sulfuric acid and exposed to diffusion for 24 hours at room temperature in a Conway chamber. The resulting vapors and gases were absorbed in a sodium-hydroxide solution.

After this diffusion process was completed, the samples were subjected to color intensity analysis using pyridine-pyrazolone reagent, and the resulting color intensity was measured with a spectrophotometer (630 nm).

The corresponding concentration of hydrocyanic acid compound was measured against the calibration curve, which had been calibrated from an appropriately prepared sample of a known concentration.

The Results

Of the ten samples taken from the rooms of Block 3, where Zyklon B disinfection was carried out, traces of hydrocyanic acid compounds were found in seven of the samples in a concentration of nine to 147 micrograms per 100 grams of the sample material, calculated on the basis of the curve calibrated with potassium cyanide.

Concentration of Cyanide in the analyzed material:

Sample number
as per the procedure
of 20 February 1990 Concentration of Cyanide
expressed as potassium cyanide
(micrograms per 100 grams of material)

Sample No. 1 17

Sample No. 2 9

Sample No. 7 19

Sample No. 8 35

Sample No. 9 101

Sample No. 10 132

Sample No. 11 147

Sample No. 15 6

Note: No cyanide was found in any of the other samples.


Each sample that showed a positive result was then subjected to infrared spectrophotometric analysis in a Digilab company model F TS 15 B spectrophotometer. In five samples analyzed with this technique, the presence of cyanide was detected corresponding to spectral bands with frequencies of 2000 to 2200 cm. [1]

In each of the five "positive" tested plaster samples,a more or less distinct blue deposit could be detected. This kind of deposit, which is known as Prussian blue, may result from the interaction of cyanide with iron-based compounds.

Of the samples taken from crematories 1, 2, 3, and 5, only sample number 15 showed almost indetectably small traces of cyanide compounds (6 micrograms per 100 grams of wall plaster). This sample was taken from a column that stands in the middle of the gas chamber of crematory [building] 2 in Birkenau.

The analysis of the hair and hair weave produced a negative result. The result of the analysis of the two control samples was also negative.

On 18 July 1990, Dr. W. Gubala returned to the former Auschwitz concentration camp and took seven further samples from the wall plasters where the presence of hydrocyanic compounds had been detected by chemical analysis. These material samples were once again subjected to the analysis procedure described above, and once again the results were positive.

The hydrocyanic acid (HCN) that is released from the Zyklon B preparation is a liquid with a boiling point of about 27 degrees Celsius. It has an acidic character, ath therefore forms compounds with metallic salts, which are known as cyanides. The salts of alkaline metals (such as sodium and potassium) are water soluble.

Hydrocyanic acid is a very weak acid, and accordingly its salts dissolve easily in stronger acids. Even carbonic acid, which is formed as a reaction of carbon dioxide with water, will dissolve ferro-cyanide.

Stronger acids, such as sulfuric acids, easily dissolve the cyanides. The compounds of cyanide ions with heavy metals are longer lasting. This includes the already mentioned Prussian blue, although this will also slowly dissolve in an acidic environment.

Therefore, one can hardly assume that traces of cyanic compounds could still be detected in construction materials (plaster, brick) after 45 years, after being subjected to the weather and the elements (rain, acid oxides, especially sulfuric and nitrogen oxides). More reliable would be the analysis of wall plaster [samples] from closed rooms which were not subject to weather and the elements (including acid rain).

The analysis of the wall plaster taken from the rooms of Block 3 did indicate the presence of hydrocyanic acid compounds, although only in very small amounts. This result is a confirmation of the fact that in these rooms of Block 3, preparations of hydrogen cyanide such as in Zyklon B were used for disinfection.

The discovery of hydrocyanic acid compounds in samples of material which had been subject to the elements can only be accidental.

The macroscopic and microscopic examination of the hair weaves (PMO-II-6-477 to 480) showed hair in the woven material with the properties of human hair, as shown in photos 1, 2, and 3.

[Photos not reproduced here]

The Experts:

Director
Prof. Dr. Jan Markiewicz
Specialist for Technical Testing
Engineer Jerzy Labedz
Director of Toxicology
Dr. Wojciech Gubala
Senior Assistant
Beata Trzcinska, M.S.
[rubber stamp]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Markiewicz Responds
In late April, IHR Associate Editor Mark Weber wrote to Dr. Jan Markiewicz, director of the Institute of Forensic Research, to ask for a comment on his agency's September 1990 report. He was specifically asked to comment on the significance of his institute's report in light of Leuchter's 1988 investigation and report. A copy of the April IHR Newsletter, which told about the Krakow Institute's investigation and report, was mailed along with Weber's inquiry. In a letter dated June 7, 1991, Dr. Markiewicz responded:

I received your letter with enclosure on 16 April 1991. I agree with you that a commentary should necessarily be affixed to our report of 24 Sep. 1990, which is called for by the straightforwardness of information, so essential to any scientific studies. Our Institute of Forensic Research is a scientific-research establishment attached to the Ministry of Justice. Investigations of material evidences are carried out in it independently of the parties to the suit and expert opinions are expressed in civil and criminal cases for the purposes of the administration of justice.

In a letter of 17 May 1989 the then Director of the State Museum at Auschwitz, Mr. Kazimierz Smolen, asked me to make "an analysis of plaster samples from the walls of the gas chambers for the presence of hydrogen cyanide." In connection with the question posed in that letter I qualified the chances of detecting hydrogen cyanide in such samples as nearly none. As a chemist engaged in forensic chemical toxicology for 45 years, I am familiar with the properties of this volatile substance. Hence my reply. Anyway, I stated that, if only such investigation was considered to be expedient, I was ready to undertake it. As my partner in further talks and possible study I named Dr. Wojciech Gubala of the Forencis Toxicological Laboratory of our Institute. At the same time I referred to the expert appraisal made by Dr. Jan Robel in this Institute in 1945, closely connected with the problems in hand...

Having communicated by phone with the Management of the Museum at Auschwitz, Dr. Gubala went there together with his co-worker, Mr. Jerzy Labedz on 10 Feb. 1990. Both these workers were taken round the Camp territory by the curator, Dr. Franciszek Piper, and toward the end of their visit by Mr. Piotr Sethkiewicz and they took samples of plaster in places indicated to them, in compliance with the wish expressed by the Director earlier. I was not informed then about the so-called "Leuchter's Report" or about the publications coming out at that time, and nor were my co- workers. Their investigations and results are known to you from the expertise the copy of which is in your possession. I'd like to mention that the Management of the Museum did not inform us about the copying of this expert appraisal and its propagation.

Now, in the light of letters and publications coming to us from different countries, I have arrived at the conclusion that our investigations aiming at the confirmation, if possible, of the use of cyanic preparations in the rooms that survived whole or only in the form of ruins, were rather preliminary in nature and incomplete. We are bent on widening and deepening these investigations and have already been preparing for them. It is only now when suitable materials from literature have become accessible to us that we see the purpose and sense of such studies. Naturally, we shall publish their results and make them accessible to you and your Institute.

The IHR is naturally gratified by Dr. Markiewicz's open-minded and cooperative attitude, which serves the cause of honest scholarship and historical truth.

We are pleased that the Krakow Institute will continue its investigation into this very important aspect of the Auschwitz extermination story, and we appreciate his pledge to keep us informed of the results.

In response to a couple of issues raised in this letter:

As Dr. Markiewicz mentions -- and as Dr. Faurisson and others have repeatedly stressed -- hydrogen cyanide is indeed a volatile substance. However, this point is not directly relevant to the investigations conducted by Leuchter or the Krakow Institute. In contrast to the volatility of hydrogen cyanide, the ferro-ferric-cyanide compounds ("Prussian blue") produced as a result of the interaction of hydrogen cyanide and iron are remarkably stable, as authoritative chemistry reference works confirm.
The IHR is familiar with the 1945 forensic report referred to by Markiewicz in his letter, and more will be said about it in a forthcoming issue of the Journal.
[A letter similar to the one sent by Weber to Dr. Markiewicz was also sent to the Auschwitz State Museum. So far, though, no response has been received to that inquiry.]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: Reprinted from The Journal of Historical Review, vol. 11, no. 2, pp. 207-216.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v11/v11p207_Staff.html
От Дмитрий Кобзев
К Максим (21.05.2002 19:02:09)
Дата 22.05.2002 11:39:05

Представим нас на месте евреев

Привет!

Вот появляется какой-то ревизионист, и говорит, к примеру - во время гитлеровской оккупации умерло не 4 млн. гражданских голодной смертью, а десятки тысяч всего-лишь. Убито было вне военных действий и угнано в плен не 6 млн., а десятки тысяч всего-лишь. Гитлеровцы не вели направленной политики геноцида в отношении народов СССР. План Ост - фальшивка.
И, соответственно, потеряли мы в войне гражданских лиц не 14 миллионов, а 2 или 3 млн.

Лично я бы очень был рад, что огромное число моих соотечественников оказалось вдруг живо и избавлено от страшной смерти, и, по крайней мере, всем сердцем желал бы, чтобы этот ревизионист оказался прав.

Почему евреи не относятся таким же образом к попыткам ревизионистов обосновать уменьшение числа их соотечественников, погибших страшной смертью в годы войны?

Дмитрий Кобзев
От pashka
К Дмитрий Кобзев (22.05.2002 11:39:05)
Дата 23.05.2002 13:11:56

Ре: Представим нас...


Привет!

>Лично я бы очень был рад...

Я рад за Вас: т.к. Вы можете радоваться. В немецких источниках я нахожу всегда замечания к воен. действиям "на востоке". Практ. каждое описание успешной операции "красной армии" сопровождается комментариями "ценой огромных чел. потерь", "не проявляя заботы о живом составе", "несмотря на низкую воинскую мораль из-за принуждения". Т.е. наши красноармеицы не пали в борьбе с захватчиками, а ... сами виноваты. Радуйтесь, немцы убили меньше "ваших соотечественников", чем те цифры, кот-е стоят в сов. статистиках.

Далее. В "Франкфуртер Аллгемaине" читал статю о произволе на Нюрнбергском прозессе: одному из нем. генералов было представлено обвинение о репрессиях над гражд. населением в Крыму. Неправомерно, считает газета, т.к. группа гражд. лиц была ликвидирована по приказу генерала етштше во время боевых действий, а не после прекраштшения их. Поетому ето "боевые потери" среди тех, кто был "партизаном" и "гражд. потери во время провед. боевых операций" среди прочих (не-партизан). Радуйтесь, потери среди гражд. населения из-за репрессий меньше, чем бло заявленно сов. союзом на нюрнб. суде!

>Почему евреи не относятся таким же образом к попыткам ревизионистов обосновать уменьшение числа их соотечественников, погибших страшной смертью в годы войны?

Пишите проштше, Сов. Союз понес потери в составе 20 милл. людей и какого-то кол-ва нерусских.

пашка
От Дмитрий Кобзев
К pashka (23.05.2002 13:11:56)
Дата 23.05.2002 13:51:21

О потерях надо судить по сведениям противоположной стороны

Привет!

>>Лично я бы очень был рад...

>Я рад за Вас: т.к. Вы можете радоваться. В немецких источниках я нахожу всегда замечания к воен. действиям "на востоке". Практ. каждое описание успешной операции "красной армии" сопровождается комментариями "ценой огромных чел. потерь", "не проявляя заботы о живом составе", "несмотря на низкую воинскую мораль из-за принуждения". Т.е. наши красноармеицы не пали в борьбе с захватчиками, а ... сами виноваты. Радуйтесь, немцы убили меньше "ваших соотечественников", чем те цифры, кот-е стоят в сов. статистиках.
Я был бы рад, если бы кто опроверг и Кривошеева с его 8.6 млн. потерь армии в сторону уменьшения.
Неужели вы не были бы рады этому?
Пока писаки типа Б.Соколова, наоборот, доказывают, что Кривошеев сильно занизил потери и пишут о 30-40 млн, не понимая, впрочем, своей глупости.

>>Почему евреи не относятся таким же образом к попыткам ревизионистов обосновать уменьшение числа их соотечественников, погибших страшной смертью в годы войны?
>
>Пишите проштше, Сов. Союз понес потери в составе 20 милл. людей и какого-то кол-ва нерусских.
Это почему я должен такое написать?
Откуда следует, что я кого-то за людей не считаю?

Дмитрий Кобзев
От Георгий
К Дмитрий Кобзев (22.05.2002 11:39:05)
Дата 22.05.2002 13:32:15

Нюанс.

>Вот появляется какой-то ревизионист, и говорит, к примеру - во время гитлеровской оккупации умерло не 4 млн. гражданских голодной смертью, а десятки тысяч всего-лишь. Убито было вне военных действий и угнано в плен не 6 млн., а десятки тысяч всего-лишь. Гитлеровцы не вели направленной политики геноцида в отношении народов СССР. План Ост - фальшивка.
>И, соответственно, потеряли мы в войне гражданских лиц не 14 миллионов, а 2 или 3 млн.
>Лично я бы очень был рад, что огромное число моих соотечественников оказалось вдруг живо и избавлено от страшной смерти, и, по крайней мере, всем сердцем желал бы, чтобы этот ревизионист оказался прав.
>Почему евреи не относятся таким же образом к попыткам ревизионистов обосновать уменьшение числа их соотечественников, погибших страшной смертью в годы войны?

Если привычная версия (убили немцы) ставится под сомнение, встает вопрос - "а куда делись исчезнувшие люди?" Ну вот Вы говорите - "потеряли мы в войне гражданских лиц не 14 миллионов, а 2 или 3 млн."
А куда делись остальные? НКВД сгноило, что ли? (Вспомните Катынь.)
А денежные компенсации родственникам? А репутация "гонимых" и дубина "антисемитизма", которой бьют любого строптивого?
Это уже про евреев, конечно, но ведь и у русских козырь - мы больше всех воевали и больше всех потеряли народу - в абсолютных цифрах. А КАК ЖЕ ТОГДА ЖИТЬ ДАЛЬШЕ, если "все не так"?

Я это к тому, что "та сторона" ведет себя очень разумно. К ней претензий нет. "Пидором" является все остальное человечество - кстати, русские меньше других (в данном случае). Но и то лишь потому, что "мы тоже пострадали". Убери от нас 20 млн. (так, кажется?), УБИТЫХ ВРАГАМИ, НЕМЦАМИ (принципиально!!), и что останется?

В мире идет конкуренция по части того, "кто тварь дрожащая, а кто право имеет". И горе тому, кто принимает точку зрения противника и ДОБРОВОЛЬНО становится в позу, чтобы его как следует отымели те, кому не лень. И вот тут русские - по части чемпионов, увы.

"Дают - бери, бьют - беги" - это универсальное правило. И НЕЛЬЗЯ БЕЖАТЬ, ПОКА НЕ БЬЮТ. Заранее. Для того, кто это делает, я не могу найти цензурных слов .