От badger
К All
Дата 28.07.2004 07:17:27
Рубрики WWI; Флот;

Вопрос к ув. Exeter - Q-ship Baralong

А что там за история с добиванием выживших из экипажа U-27?

У британского командира просто крышу сорвало, или был приказ (неправильно понятый или скажем вскоре отмененный)?
От apple16
К badger (28.07.2004 07:17:27)
Дата 29.07.2004 13:31:32

Вот из NY Times за 1915 год (английский, среднего качества распознавание)


GERMANY CHARGES MURDERS AT SEA
New York Times; Oct 18, 1915; P


Bernstorff Sends to Lansing Nicosian Affidavits Accusing British of
Killing Submarine Men.
USE OF OUR FLAG ASSERTED
Four Muleteers on American Boat
Swear Drowning Men and
Prisoners Were Shot.

Count von Bernstorff, the German Ambassador, announced yesterday that he had forwarded to Secretary Lansing several affidavits alleging that eleven j German sailors of a submarine crew were slain in cold blood by the crew of a British patrol vessel named the Bara-lung, which flew the American flag at the time of the attack. It Is also alleged that the British patrol boat was emblazoned with the American flag painted on board and hung over the' sides.
The affidavits were prepared in New Orleans, where the steamship Nicosian, on board of which some of the German sailors sought refuge, arrived a short time ago. On the vessel's arrival sev-eial of the crew said a Britisli patrol boat had sunk a German submarine vessel, and subsequently when the survivors of the submarine were struggling in the water, or had sought refuge aboard the Nicosian they had been killed by the British seamen.
Count von Bernstoff issued the following statement:
" According to the affidavits, six of the German sailors were shot while seeking rescue In the water, the Captain after raising one hand in surrender, and the others were shot down after taking refuge on the steamship Nicosian. The British patrol boat, up to the moment of firing, it ia alleged, not only flew the American flag, but conspicuously exhibited the (flag on large boards suspended on either side of the boat.
" One of the statements Is signed by
James J. Curren, foreman of the gang in charge of transporting mules on the Ntcosian from New Orleans to England. The other statement, corroborating in detail that made by Curren, is signed by Charles D. Hightower. Amer-son Palen, Edward Clark and E. H. Cosby, all employed as muleteers on the Nicosian. The affidavits were prepared in New Orleans before Charles E. Denechaud.
" According to the sworn statement of Foreman Curren, the Nicosian reached the war zone on Aug. 1C. On Aug. W a submarine was sighted. The submarine fired a warning shot and hoisted a signal directing all aboard the Nicosian to abandon the ship. While Captain Manning was giving orders to the wireless operator, a ship was sighted on the horizon. The submarine fired a second warning shot, which went high over the heads of the men and carried away the wireless. After telling of the departure of the crew in boats, Curren continues: 'The ship we had sighted on the horizon was sufficiently close to us now to make out her flag, which we J recognized as an American flag. On her respective sides amidship were two boards with the American flag painted on each. The size of these painted flags was about VI by 16 feet.
NKW Arrival Open* Fin-.
" 'After the submarine had opened fire on the deserted Nicosian the Baralong came up behind and passed the attacked ship, immediately opening fire on the submarine with rifles. Then the Baralong began firing with cannon, whose screens fell away and exposed the muzzles of the guns. After the screens mentioned fell away and the guns began to fire the American flag at the pole at- the stern of the BaraJong was dipped and the British flag hoisted Instead.'
" One of the shots from the Baralong carried away the conning tower ot the submarine and killed several Germans. As the submarine had begun to sink, the rest of the crew, numbering eleven, plunged into the ocean, five reaching the rope ladder of the Nicosian and clambering aboard, while six swam about, finally securing hold of the fall lines of the lifeboats. The submarine disappeared, and the men from the Nicosian boarded the Baralong. The Captain shook hands with the Nicosian crew, and, according to Curren, was \ highly elated over the outcome of the j encounter. He then ordered his own men along the rail, and. according to ! Curren, directed them to shoot the Ger- i man sailors clinging to the Nicosian's ! ropes. Some of the men started firing, ! and all of the six men in the water were Uilled in cold blood.
" The Baralong was then made fast to I the Nicosian, which was boarded by the British crew. Captain McBride of the Baralong, when ordering out the marines in charge of a petty officer, gave the command: 'Get them all; take no prisoners.'
Saw the Captain Shot.
" Curren tells of the killing of the Germans on board the Nicosian. The ship's carpenter, he waa told, killed one with a revolver after he threw up hiH hands. One was killed In the engine room hatch as he was descending a lai der. The chief engineer, says Curren, boasted of having killed another. Curren says he saw the bodies of die slain, and adds: ' Each one of them had a hole in the forehead made by shots, and. which I was told, were fired to make sure a good job was done.'
" Curren says the German Captain, who had been hiding in the bow of the ship, rushed to the side and dived over- │ board. He threw up one hand in surrender, but several volleys of shots were fired. After the Captain was shot the marines returned to their own ship, and there was great rejoicing among them. ' The steward of our ship opened a bottle of whiskey and presented it to the gunner and his friends.' Curren as-
serts that tie saw a letter, subsequently sent t>v the Captain of tlie Barolong to the Captain of the Nicosian, asking him to caution his men, particularly the Americana aboard, to say notliin~ of the event either on their arrival at Liverpool or their return to America."
От Exeter
К badger (28.07.2004 07:17:27)
Дата 28.07.2004 19:37:09

Да обычный эксцесс, коих на войне полно (-)
От apple16
К badger (28.07.2004 07:17:27)
Дата 28.07.2004 12:16:21

Статейка из Таймс (980 килобайт)

Статейка из Таймс
От apple16
К badger (28.07.2004 07:17:27)
Дата 28.07.2004 11:58:39

Re: Вопрос к...

Стреляли по плывущим к американскому корыту Nicosian
уцелевшим членам экипажа U-27(6 человек).

Англичане естественно написали в отчетах о гибели
всех членов экипажа лодки во время ее потопления.

Однако нашлись штатники заявившие что часть немцев была расстреляна в воде.

Дело естественно раздули - немецкий контр-пиар.

Британцы очень не любили подводников.
Немцы очень не любили членов экипажей Q-ships.

Американцы со своим "топи их всех"
привели дело к общему знаменателю - спасать
врага на море во время войны совершенно не обязательно.
Более того если есть хоть какая-то вероятность
у противника избежать плена его надо добить.

Вам из Таймса поискать и Ney York Times?
Есть также две статейки популярные про Q-ships и
про лодочников немецких с фотографиями.

Из мусорки

In August of 1915 the British Q-ship HMS Baralong (ex Ellerman Line 4,000 ton tramp) responding to an SOS in the Bristol Channel came upon the 6,250 ton freighter Nicosian taking gun fire from U-27. Nicosian had a cargo of 750 mules loaded in New Orleans and bound for Liverpool.

U-27 was firing from the port side of the Nicosian. Baralong approached from the starboard side of Nicosian and was flying the Stars and Stripes and had two name boards indicating she was the ULYSSES S GRANT, USA. She indicated with signal flags that she was going to rescue the crew, who were in lifeboats. While out of sight of U-27, behind the Nicosian, she dropped the name boards, lowered the flag, and raised the British Ensign.

Just as she cleared the Nicosian she exposed her 12 pounders and commenced firing at close range. U-27 was caught by surprise and sank, however, 6 members of her crew managed to swim to the nearby Baralong.

The Captain of the HMS Baralong ordered Marines to board Nicosian and capture it. The Marines reported that the 6 German sailors were dead from wounds received from the 12 pounder's gunfire.

A New York newspaper heard the story and published articles that questioned how the German sailors died. The world press followed up on the story and the German Government charged it was a case of murder.

Crew members of the Nicosian who remained on board during the event gave conflicting accounts of what happened.



Gibson & Prendergast in their "The German Submarine War, 1914-1918" makes the point that HMS Baralong manoeuvred herself so that she unmasked her guns and ran up the White Ensign when SS Nicosian was between U27 and HMS Baralong and she opened fire when U27 appeared beyond SS Nicosian's bows. This means that SS Nicosian was closer to the Germans than HMS Baralong, the distance between U27 and HMS Baralong being 600 yards. Most swimmers in the open sea would have made towards the nearest safety, worrying about surrendering after they were safe, so that swimming towards SS Nicosian would not necessarily have been an attempt to escape. Admittedly they had not formally surrendered, but it is very hard to swim with your hands in the air!