От	Роман (rvb)
К	apple16
Дата	05.03.2004 16:05:17
Рубрики	11-19 век; Флот;

Re: Вопрос по...

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http://dv.renet.ru/pirates/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=17&bid=21&btitle=CE&meid=19

S.Y. Roman ( Холмовцы: http://vif2ne.ru/holmovo/forum/ )

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От	apple16
К	Роман (rvb) (05.03.2004 16:05:17)
Дата	05.03.2004 16:23:32

Дык у меня 1799 год

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К тому времени Шотландия и Ирландия уже устаканились.

Заметно что белые и синие адмиралы стали капитанами
позже красных.

Более того например некий Sir Richard Hughes, Bt.
в 1799 году был "белым" полным адмиралом, а
в 1795 году (за этот год тоже есть список)
он числился еще "красным" вице-адмиралом.
(и он такой не один там)
(красные лучше белых, а те лучше синих)

Это не национальные адмиралы а что то другое

К сожалению в издании 1782 года нет такой таблицы

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От	apple16
К	apple16 (05.03.2004 16:23:32)
Дата	05.03.2004 16:35:04

Все понял - Google он хорош :)

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral

Цветные адмиралы командовали частями эскадры.
Карьерный рост менял цвет.
Нельсон дорос только до белого вице-адмирала.

In Elizabethan times the fleet grew large enough to be organized into squadrons. The admiral's squadron wore a red ensign, the vice admiral's white, and the rear admiral's blue. As the squadrons grew, each was eventually commanded by an Admiral (with Vice Admirals and Rear Admirals commanding sections) and the official titles became Admiral of the White, etc.

The squadrons ranked in order Red, White and Blue, and admirals ranked according to their squadron. Promotion up the ladder was in accordance with seniority in the rank of post captain, and rank was held for life, so the only way to get promoted was for the person above you on the list to die or resign. Another way was to promote unsuccessful admirals to the next rank without distinction of squadron (a practice known as yellowing - the unfortunate became known as a yellow admiral).

Admiral of the Fleet
Admiral of the White
Admiral of the Blue
Vice Admiral of the Red
Vice Admiral of the White
Vice Admiral of the Blue
Rear Admiral of the Red
Rear Admiral of the White
Rear Admiral of the Blue

Lord Nelson when he died was only a Vice Admiral of the White.

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От	Роман (rvb)
К	apple16 (05.03.2004 16:23:32)
Дата	05.03.2004 16:30:38

Re: Дык у...

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>К тому времени Шотландия и Ирландия уже устаканились.

Это истоки традиции, "откуда есть пошли" три флага.

Позднее - просто ранги (в тесте по ссылке оно помнается).

А вот тут немного подробнее, но на английском:

http://www.kipar.org/society/author/pirates-history/british-navy.html

>==========================
As the Royal Navy's responsibilities in defending and extending a world-wide empire grew in the 18th century, the 17th century organisation into a single enormous fleet with nine flag officers commanding nine squadrons was abandoned. Instead of being appointed to a temporary job in a particular fleet, officers obtained permanent tenure of rank and, once appointed to a flag, gained promotion by moving up the list as those above them died off. Up to 1743, the total number of active flag officers at any time was limited to nine; after that year the restriction was lifted, so that several admirals, vice admirals and rear admirals of each colour could exist, and the number of flag officers grew rapidly. The ladder of promotion incorporated squadronal colours: a man would normally receive his flag as rear admiral of the blue and advance through rear admiral of the white, rear admiral of the red, vice admiral of the blue, vice admiral of the white, vice admiral of the red, admiral of the blue and admiral of the white, until finally, if he lived long enough, he reached the rank of Admiral of the Fleet.
>==========================

т.е. "адмирал красного флага" старше "адмирала белого флага", а тот старше "адмирала синего флага".

S.Y. Roman ( Холмовцы: http://vif2ne.ru/holmovo/forum/ )

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