От PQ
К А.Никольский
Дата 06.06.2002 17:56:59
Рубрики Танки;

Их целых 15 штук...

Если мне не изменяет память их штук 15. Примерно столько у индийцев «Арджунов»
По поводу выпадов паков в отношении индийцев. На пакистанской машине явно применены элементы шасси нашего родного Т-72, который берет свое начало в далеких 50-х. С уважением, Виталий. ви http://www.otvaga.narod.ru/
От Василий Фофанов
К PQ (06.06.2002 17:56:59)
Дата 06.06.2002 19:27:11

Re: Их целых

>По поводу выпадов паков в отношении индийцев. На пакистанской машине явно применены элементы шасси нашего родного Т-72, который берет свое начало в далеких 50-х.

Я бы скорее сказал, что и Т-72 и Аль-Халид используют элементы шасси танка далеких 40-х :)

Но вообще Аль-Халид вполне впечатляет. Декольте у мехвода устранено, у командира независимый тепловизор... неприятная машина.

С уважением, Василий Фофанов http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov
От DM
К Василий Фофанов (06.06.2002 19:27:11)
Дата 06.06.2002 19:40:49

Re: Их целых

>Но вообще Аль-Халид вполне впечатляет. Декольте у мехвода устранено, у командира независимый тепловизор... неприятная машина.

Интересно, кто ему ДЗ разраатывал.

Кстати комбинация шасси Т-72 с харьковским дизелем. Нечто подобное предлагает и Харьков в порядке модернизации Т-72, как с заменой вооружения (Т-72-120), так и без. Как вы к такому симбиозу относитесь?

>С уважением, Василий Фофанов http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov
От Василий Фофанов
К DM (06.06.2002 19:40:49)
Дата 07.06.2002 13:24:36

Дык

>Кстати комбинация шасси Т-72 с харьковским дизелем. Нечто подобное предлагает и Харьков в порядке модернизации Т-72, как с заменой вооружения (Т-72-120), так и без. Как вы к такому симбиозу относитесь?

Положительно отношусь, почему бы нет? Это единственный освоенный на Украине танковый дизель, который к настоящему времени вполне освоен, отчего же его не ставить? В-46 все-таки уж очень слабоват по нынешним меркам.

С уважением, Василий Фофанов http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov
От Venik
К PQ (06.06.2002 17:56:59)
Дата 06.06.2002 18:50:41

МБТ-2000 Аль-Халид

Мое почтение!

Кому интересно:

MBT 2000 (Al-Khalid)
Development

On 1 October 1988, it was announced that Pakistan would manufacture a new MBT (MBT 2000) with the assistance of the People's Republic of China and with the now Heavy Industries Taxila in Pakistan carrying out the programme.
The project was approved by the Defence Committee of the Cabinet on 16 January 1990 and the contract with China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO) was signed in May 1990.
Rather than build a new MBT from scratch, Pakistan elected a four-phased approach:

Upgrade the existing Type 59 MBT. Details of the three phase Type 59 MBT upgrade are given in the following entry.
Assembly/manufacture of the Type 69-II MBT; this has 50 per cent of its components from the Type 59 and 50 per cent new components. Production of Type 69-II hulls commenced in Pakistan in 1993 with the turrets still coming from China. The Pakistan designation is the Type 69-IIMP with the engine developing 580 hp. Details of the Type 69 are given under China
Co-production and manufacture of the Type 85 MBT; this has 20 per cent components from the Type 59, 30 per cent components from the Type 69-II MBT and 50 per cent new components. Co-production of the Type 85 has now commenced and a batch of these vehicles has already been supplied from China. In Pakistan service these are designated the Type 85-IIAP. Details of the Type 85 are given under China
Production of the MBT 2000 with 45 per cent of its components taken from existing vehicles (10 per cent Type 59, 15 per cent Type 69-II and 20 per cent Type 85) and 55 per cent new components.
The Heavy Industries Taxila, also known as P-711, has been established and running for some time. It was then decided to build additional facilities for specific components:


P-882
All types of AFV hull

P-883
All types of turret

P-884
All types of engine from 520 to 1,500 hp

P-885
Progressive manufacture of guns from 105 to 203 mm

P-886
Flexible machining centre



The first prototype of MBT 2000, which is also referred to as the Al-Khalid or P-90, was completed on schedule in June 1991, with trials being carried out in 1992.
It is expected that initially 65 to 70 per cent of the key components will be made in Pakistan, 20 to 25 per cent will be supplied by China and the remainder will come from other countries.
During the development phase of the Al Khalid a number of prototypes of the vehicle were built and tested in various configurations:
Configuration 1 was based entirely on the Chinese systems viz the Chinese 125 mm smoothbore gun and automatic loader, fire-control system, gun-control system and diesel power pack. The latter comprises a 1,200 hp diesel engine manufactured in China and based on the MTU 396 series engine manufactured under licence from MTU of Germany coupled to a Renk LSG 3000 automatic transmission.
Configuration 2 used a Chinese 125 mm smooth bore gun and automatic loader, fire-control system and gun-control equipment with a Western power pack consisting of a British Perkins Engine Company 1,200 hp Condor diesel coupled to a French SESM-500 automatic transmission.
Configuration 3 was based on a 1,200 hp power pack, 125 mm smoothbore gun and automatic loading system from Ukraine with the fire-control system and gun-control system being of East European design.
Configuration 4 would have been based on Western armament and power pack with the latter consisting of an MTU 871 or General Dynamics Land Systems AVDS-1790 series diesel engine coupled to a Renk LSG 3000 automatic transmission. This option did not materialise owing to difficulties in the acquisition of these systems due to trade embargoes.
During the planning stage, a thorough technical evaluation of hydrogas suspension and a Renk 304 automatic transmission was carried out. In the end these were not considered to be feasible due to problems associated with maintainability, reliability and other limitations.
Due to high ambient temperatures and dust in areas where the Al Khalid MBT was due to operate, special emphasis was placed on the design and installation of high-capacity cooling and efficient air clearing systems.
Trials with the prototype Al Khalid MBT have been undertaken in ambient temperatures of up to 55єC and with very fine sand/dust particles.
According to the prime contractor, the users and technical experts were fully satisfied with the trials conducted in the summer of 1998 in the southern deserts of Pakistan and subsequently in different regions of the country presenting different terrain environments.
Late in 2000 it was stated that a preproduction batch of 15 Al Khalid MBTs would be built to enable trials to be undertaken at squadron level before volume production starts. The first of these 15 pre-production Al Khalid MBTs was handed over to the Pakistan Army for extensive trials in July 2001 and all have now been delivered.
The Heavy Industries Taxila facility has successfully undertaken manufacture of Chinese Type 69-II and Type 85II AP MBTs and the US M113 series APC.
It is understood that a major upgrading and rearranging of production lines has been under way at the HIT for several years to allow for production of the new Al Khalid.
This also includes the establishment of CNC machining centres for precision machining of the hull, turret and other critical parts to undertake production of the Al Khalid.
Pakistan is also understood to have been making simultaneous efforts towards the development of special armour for use in tank production. The HIT has been successful is developing special steel for tank guns and composite armour materials for use during series production.
During successive trials, armour protection of the hull and turret of the tank have been tested through live firing which defeated all types of 120 and 125 mm tank projectiles and selected other tank ammunition.

Description

The layout of the MBT 2000 is conventional, with the driver's compartment at the front, turret in the centre and the power pack at the rear. In many respects the MBT 2000 appears to be almost identical to the Chinese NORINCO Type 90-II MBT.
The turret and hull are of all-welded steel armour construction and an additional layer of composite armour has been added over the frontal arc, to which explosive reactive armour can be added if required. Turret thickness at the front is estimated to be 600 mm with the glacis/nose estimated to be 450 to 470 mm.
The armour is of modular design enabling the user to change the damaged modules or replace the existing models with new armour packages as the threat evolves or as new technology becomes available.
Main armament is a 125 mm smoothbore gun fitted with a thermal sleeve and a fume extractor. The 125 mm gun is autofrettaged and chrome plated. This can fire APFSDS (muzzle velocity 1,760 m/s), HEAT (muzzle velocity 850 m/s) and HE-FRAG (muzzle velocity 950 m/s). It can also fire a laser guided projectile fitted with a HEAT warhead. The gun is fed by an automatic loader enabling the crew to be reduced to three - commander, gunner and driver.
A 7.62 mm machine gun is mounted coaxially with the main armament and a 12.7 mm machine gun is mounted on the roof for anti-aircraft and local defence. Mounted either side of the turret, towards the rear, is a bank of four electrically operated forward-firing smoke grenade dischargers. A turret basket is provided at the rear.
The computerised fire-control system includes a bi-axis stabilised dual magnification gunners sight, bi-axis stabilised commanders sight with hunter killer capability, computer, commander's control panel, laser range-finder, crosswind sensor, tilt sensor and angle velocity sensor. This allows the MBT 2000 to engage moving targets under day and night conditions.
The gunner's integrated biaxis stabilised sight incorporates day/night channels, thermal imager and a laser range-finder. It has dual magnification of Ч3 and Ч10 and two fields of view, 20єand 6є.
The commander's roof-mounted panoramic sight is also biaxis stabilised and has day, second-generation image intensification and a laser range-finder. The sight has a magnification of Ч7.5 and a 7.5є field of view.
The laser range-finder has a range of 200 to 5,000 m and interfaced with the gunner's sight is an auto tracker.
The complete power pack, which consists of the engine, transmission and cooling system, can be removed from the vehicle in 30 minutes to facilitate field replacement.
Suspension is of the torsion bar type with six large dual rubber-tyred roadwheels either side, idler at the front, drive sprocket at the rear and track-return rollers. The upper part of the suspension is covered by a track skirt with a wavy lower part.

Variants

There are no known variants of the MBT 2000.


Specifications

Crew: 3
Combat weight: 46,000 kg
Power-to-weight ratio: 26.08 hp/t
Length: 6.9 m
Width: 3.4 m
Height: 2.3 m
Max road speed: 70 km/h
Acceleration: 0 to 32 km/h: 10 s
Range (road): 400 km
Vertical obstacle: 0.85 m
Trench: 2.7 m
Gradient: 60%
Side slope: 40%
Engine: 8-cylinder, 4-stroke, water-cooled, turbocharged diesel developing 1,200 hp
Transmission: semi-automatic hydromechanical power shift with 4 forward and 2 reverse gears
Suspension: torsion bars, shock-absorbers and hydraulic bump stops
Armament:
(main) 1 Ч 125 mm smoothbore gun
(coaxial) 1 Ч 7.62 mm MG
(anti-aircraft) 1 Ч 12.7 mm MG
(smoke grenade dischargers) 2 Ч 4
Ammunition:
(125 mm) 39 (22 in automatic loader)
(12.7 mm) 500
(7.62 mm) 2,000
(grenades) 16 (12 smoke, 4 HE)
Gun control equipment
Turret power control: powered/manual
(by commander) yes
(by gunner) yes
Gun stabiliser:
(vertical) yes
(horizontal) yes
Range setting device: yes (laser)
NBC system: yes
Night vision equipment: yes


Status

Entering production for the Pakistan Army who have placed a contract for the first batch of 15 preproduction vehicles which have now been delivered.

Manufacturer

Heavy Industries Taxila.


Chinese supplied Type 85-IIAP MBT showing roof-mounted 12.7 mm AA MG


Chinese supplied Type 85-IIAP MBT (Christopher F Foss)
(2001)


MBT 2000 (Al-Khalid) MBT which is very similar to the Chinese Type 90-II MBT and is shown here fitted with explosive reactive armour to its turret and chassis (HIT)
(2000)


First preproduction MBT 2000 (Al Khalid) MBT was handed over to the Pakistan Army in 2001 and is now undergoing extensive trials
(2002)

С уважением, Venik
От PQ
К Venik (06.06.2002 18:50:41)
Дата 07.06.2002 15:09:51

AL-Zarrar...

Уважаемый Venik. У вас есть что ни будь об этой пакистанской модернизации китайскогоТип59


Виталий. http://www.otvaga.narod.ru/
От Venik
К PQ (07.06.2002 15:09:51)
Дата 07.06.2002 18:24:31

Re: AL-Zarrar...

Мое почтение!

Pakistan Type 59 MBT Upgrades
Development/Description

Outside China, Pakistan is the largest user of the China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO) Type 59 (or T-59 as it is also referred to) Main Battle Tank (MBT) with an estimated 1,200 vehicles in service.
The Type 59 is itself a further development of the Russian T-54 MBT and is almost identical in appearance and retains the 100 mm rifled gun as its main armament. A 7.62 mm machine gun is mounted coaxially with the main armament and a 12.7 mm machine gun is mounted on the turret roof for air defence purposes.
While more recent MBTs have been introduced into service with the Pakistani Army, including the NORINCO Type 69-II and Type 85-IIAP, a decision was made to upgrade a significant part of the Type 59 MBT fleet at the Heavy Industries Taxila facility in three phases.
In 1993, the Phase I upgrade of the Type 59 MBT started, during which some 28 improvements were carried out to improve the combat effectiveness of the Type 59 MBT under day and night conditions. The most significant of these was the installation of a 105 mm rifled tank gun which would fire standard natures of ammunition, computerised fire-control system for improved first round hit capability, two-axis stabilisation system for the 105 mm main armament and image intensification sights for the tank commander, gunner and driver. A total of 500 Type 59 MBTs were upgraded to the Type 59 Phase I configuration.
The new gunner's thermal sight installed in the Phase II and Phase III could be the locally developed by Al-Technique Corporation of Pakistan (ATCOP). Two versions of this thermal sight have been developed, uncooled and cooled. Both these include the gunner's thermal sighting system, associated electronics and a monitor for the tank commander so that he can see the same thermal picture of the target as the gunner.
Earlier optical systems developed by ATCOP include the TR-2 and TR-3 laser range-finders, GNS 1 image intensification gunner's night sight and the DNS-3 drivers image intensification night periscope. All these have been developed for the T-series MBTs. The company has also developed the LTS laser threat warning system.
From 1998, a further 300 Type 59 MBTs were upgraded to the Phase II standard. This included all the features of the Phase I with the addition of the installation of a more powerful diesel engine and thermal night vision equipment rather than image intensification night vision devices.
The Phase III Al Zarrar is the most ambitious upgrade ever attempted on the Type 59 MBT or its Russian equivalent, the T-54. It has now been disclosed that three different prototypes of this were built for extensive user trials:


Prototype 1
This is fitted with the 125 mm smoothbore tank gun as installed in the T-80U MBT supplied to Pakistan by the Ukraine. For this application the turret has been raised 100 mm off the chassis. A new power pack has been installed that includes the Ukrainian 5TDF five-cylinder diesel, developing 700 hp. It shares many common components with the 6TD-1 six-cylinder diesel developing 1,000 hp which is already installed in the 320 T-80UD/T-84 MBTs, recently supplied by the Ukraine to Pakistan.
The suspension has been upgraded and reinforced to take into account the higher combat weight of the vehicle. This includes the installation of stronger torsion bars. The vehicle is now fitted with track return rollers and new double-pin tracks with rubber pads have been installed.
Battlefield survivability is enhanced by the introduction of additional passive armour to the turret with a fully enclosed stowage box now being installed on the turret rear. Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA) has been installed over the frontal arc. A new computerised fire-control and sighting system has also been installed.


Prototype 2
This retains the 100 mm gun of the Type 59 but is fitted with the V46-5M 12-cylinder water-cooled diesel engine that develops 690 hp coupled to a modified manual transmission. The suspension has been improved. For increased survivability an anti-mine bottom plate has been installed and ERA can be fitted.


Prototype 3
This features the power pack of the NORINCO Type 85-IIAP MBT with the suspension upgraded. The 125 mm smoothbore gun of the Type 85 has been installed. The fire-control system consists of image stabilised sights and an upgraded computerised fire-control system. Armour protection is the same as Prototype 1.
The 125 mm smoothbore gun is not fed by a fully automatic loader as installed in the Type 85 and Al Khalid MBTs so the upgraded Al Zarrar MBT retains its four-man crew consisting of commander, gunner, loader and driver. The 125 mm ammunition, already manufactured by the Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF) is of the separate loading type, projectile and charge with its semi-combustible cartridge case.
All of the upgraded vehicles retain the 7.62 mm coaxial and 12.7 mm anti-aircraft machine guns and have a bank of electrically operated smoke grenade launchers either side of the turret, firing forwards.
The different Al Zarrar configurations were built to give the user the maximum possible flexibility in making a decision on which systems to install in production vehicles.
Different sources of key subsystems also allow for increased competition. The ERA, for example, could be supplied by NORINCO or from two sources in Pakistan, the Dr A Q Khan Research Laboratories or the National Development Complex (NDC).
The final configuration of production Al Zarrar is now being decided.
It has also been disclosed that the HIT built a batch of 45 NORINCO Type WZ 653 armoured recovery vehicles and proposals have been made to upgrade this vehicle enabling it to recover the heavier Al Khalid MBT. The Type 653 ARV was originally developed to recover the Type 59 and Type 69 MBTs but the Type 85-IIAP and Al Khalid are heavier, hence the requirement for an improved recovery vehicle.
A key part of these upgrades has not only been to improve the combat capabilities of the Type 59 but also to improve the overall realiability of the vehicle and reduce maintenance.
Most of the new subsystems installed in the Type 59 MBT upgrade are also used in the Type 69 and/or Type 85 series MBTs used by Pakistan. This reduces the number of spare parts in the supply chain and has a significant impact on logistics and training as so many parts are common across the whole fleet.

Fire-control upgrade

In 2001, it was stated that the Al Technique Corporation of Pakistan (ATCOP) was to improve the combat capability of about 200 NORINCO Type 85-IIAP series MBTs in service with the Pakistani Armoured Corps.
It is estimated that Pakistan took delivery of almost 500 of these vehicles from China between 1991 and 1996, with additional vehicles being built/assembled at the Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) facility under a co-production agreement.
The Type 85-IIAP gunner currently has an image intensification night sight with limited night/poor weather capabilities and a UK BAE Systems, Avionics (previously GEC-Marconi) thermal imaging camera has been installed in one example of the Type 85-IIAP MBTs for trials purposes.
The BAE Systems, Avionics thermal imager has been designed for installation in MBTs such as the Type 85-IIAP and is claimed to have a detecting range of 7,000 m and a recognition range of 3,000 m.
The installation of a thermal imaging gunners sight will enable targets to be engaged with greater accuracy and at a longer range than the current image intensification sight. The tank commander will retain an image intensification sight and the driver can replace his standard day periscope by an image intensification periscope for driving at night.


Specifications

(Type 69IIMP)

Crew: 4
Combat weight: 36,700 kg
Power-to-weight ratio: 15.80 hp/tonne
Ground pressure: 0.823 kg/cmІ
Length:
(gun forward) 8.589 m
(hull) 6.243 m
Width: 3.27 m
Height: (to axis of AA MG) 2.807 m
Max road speed: 50 km/h
Range: 300 km
Verticle obstacle: 0.50 m
Trench: 2.50 m
Gradient: 32%
Side slope: 30%
Fording: 1.4 m
Engine: water-cooled diesel developing 580 hp
Transmission: manual
Armament:
(main) 1 Ч 105 mm rifled gun
(coaxial) 1 Ч 7.62 mm MG
(bow) 1 Ч 7.62 mm MG
(anti-aircraft) 1 Ч 12.7 mm MG
(smoke grenade launchers) 2 Ч 6
Ammunition:
(105 mm) 44
(12.7 mm) 500
(7.62 mm) 3,000

Gun control equipment
Turret power control: powered/manual
(by commander) yes
(by gunner) yes
Gun stabiliser:
(vertical) yes
(horizontal) yes
Range setting device: yes (laser)
NBC system: yes
Night vision equipment: yes


Status

In service with Pakistan Army. Upgrades are continuing.

Manufacturer

Heavy Industries Taxila.


Type 59 MBT upgraded to the latest Phase III standard clearly showing the additional passive armour on the turret and hull and the 125 mm smoothbore gun (HIT)
(2000)


Prototype 1 of the Al Zarrar MBT clearly showing the 125 mm gun and turret with additional external stowage at rear and ERA fitted to the hull and turret (Christopher F Foss)
(2001)


Prototype 3 of the Al Zarrar MBT with turret armed with 125 mm smoothbore gun fitted with ERA to the hull and turret (Christopher F Foss)
(2001)

С уважением, Venik
От Валерий Мухин
К Venik (06.06.2002 18:50:41)
Дата 07.06.2002 00:01:22

Хм.... Либо одно из двух..... (+)



Либо, у него принцип работы ДЗ отличные от нашей навесной, либо это делал псих....

C уважением, Валерий Мухин. http://mukhin.vif2.ru
От Василий Фофанов
К Валерий Мухин (07.06.2002 00:01:22)
Дата 07.06.2002 13:27:02

Да ладно, бутафория это, типа строенной НДЗ :)

Глянь на последний вариант, явно чувствуется руководящая рука умных людей из Харькова. А это поставили просто чтобы враг трепетал :)

С уважением, Василий Фофанов http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov
От Валерий Мухин
К Василий Фофанов (07.06.2002 13:27:02)
Дата 07.06.2002 17:11:36

Очень может быть.....

>Глянь на последний вариант, явно чувствуется руководящая рука умных людей из Харькова. А это поставили просто чтобы враг трепетал :)

Ты про это?

Но изменения коснулись башни (хотя сами контейнеры остались такими же), а на корпусе контейнеры все равно поперек.

C уважением, Валерий Мухин. http://mukhin.vif2.ru
От Василий Фофанов
К Валерий Мухин (07.06.2002 17:11:36)
Дата 07.06.2002 17:45:59

Re: Очень может...

>Но изменения коснулись башни (хотя сами контейнеры остались такими же), а на корпусе контейнеры все равно поперек.

Почему обязательно поперек, мы же не знаем под каким углом там внутри пластинки установлены.

С уважением, Василий Фофанов http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov
От NetReader
К Валерий Мухин (07.06.2002 00:01:22)
Дата 07.06.2002 00:41:17

Re: Хм.... Либо...

>Либо, у него принцип работы ДЗ отличные от нашей навесной, либо это делал псих....

Либо у него не НДЗ, а ВДЗ, и то, что видно - не модули, а крышки...
От Валерий Мухин
К NetReader (07.06.2002 00:41:17)
Дата 07.06.2002 00:53:25

Ход Вашей мысли мне понятен, но Вы не правы.

>Либо у него не НДЗ, а ВДЗ, и то, что видно - не модули, а крышки...

Если бы это были крышки "шахт" ВДЗ, то они были бы только вдоль переднего среза броневых детелей, а не как не на лицевых частях и по всей поверхности ВЛД.

ЗЫ. Собственно я могу представить варианты структуры такого ДЗ - я просто отмечаю отличия ее от К5

C уважением, Валерий Мухин. http://mukhin.vif2.ru
От NetReader
К Валерий Мухин (07.06.2002 00:53:25)
Дата 08.06.2002 00:49:30

Re: Ход Вашей...

>>Либо у него не НДЗ, а ВДЗ, и то, что видно - не модули, а крышки...
>
>Если бы это были крышки "шахт" ВДЗ, то они были бы только вдоль переднего среза броневых детелей, а не как не на лицевых частях и по всей поверхности ВЛД.

Это верно для "классической" ВДЗ, но мы ж не знаем, что там навернули китайцы для паков. Бывает ли "полувстроенная" ДЗ (т.е., не шахта, а заглубленный контейнер под толстой крышкой)?

>ЗЫ. Собственно я могу представить варианты структуры такого ДЗ - я просто отмечаю отличия ее от К5

Кстати похоже, что это некое типовое для паков (или китайцев) решение - на Аль-Зарраре сделана та же фигня
От knight777
К Venik (06.06.2002 18:50:41)
Дата 06.06.2002 19:02:40

интересно, но вот что характерно (+)

Всем, здравствуйте!
чем больше напряжение и ближе война, тем больше образцов оружия и вооружения извлекаются на свет и пиарятся как самые-самые.
Таким образом врага (или мировое сообщество)пытаются:
1.запугать?
2.примирить с мыслью о неизбежности военных действий, причем полномасшабных?
Хорошо если первое, а если второе?

С уважением, knight777