От Skvortsov
К VLADIMIR
Дата 11.09.2020 11:27:40
Рубрики Современность; Армия;

Re: Ну Вы...

>>То, что вы об этом первый раз слышите, сказанного выше не отменяет. Да, лучше. В том числе, и по религиозным соображениям.
>- - -
>Этого не было.

Есть многое на свете, друг Горацио, что и не снилось нашим мудрецам

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valladolid_debate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_Burgos

>Бороться с негативными чувствами многих форумчан к бритам намерений не имею. Они, в целом, такие же бывшие колонизаторы, как и целый ряд других народов. Лучше-хуже - это вопрос личных пристрастий.

Ирландский фильм Blake'47 рекомендую посмотреть. Но не навязываю.
От VLADIMIR
К Skvortsov (11.09.2020 11:27:40)
Дата 11.09.2020 11:29:18

Re: Ну Вы...

>Есть многое на свете, друг Горацио, что и не снилось нашим мудрецам
- - -
Это было сильно!
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>Ирландский фильм Blake'47 рекомендую посмотреть. Но не навязываю.
- - -
Как-нибудь.
От Skvortsov
К VLADIMIR (11.09.2020 11:29:18)
Дата 11.09.2020 11:52:57

Re: Ну Вы...

>>Есть многое на свете, друг Горацио, что и не снилось нашим мудрецам
>- - -
>Это было сильно!

Racial Makeup of the Mexican Republic (1921 Census)

Indígena Pura 29,16%
Indígena Mezclada con Blanca 59,33%
Blanca 9,8%
Extranjeros sin distinción de razas 0,71%

http://www.somosprimos.com/schmal/mexicancensus.htm#mc2

The 2010 census by the Instituto Nacional de Estadística y Geografía (National Institute of Statistics and Geography) gave Roman Catholicism as the main religion, with 82.7% of the population.

Надеюсь, о тотальном истреблении индейцев Мексики Вы писать не будете.

И вспомним судьбу могикан.
От VLADIMIR
К Skvortsov (11.09.2020 11:52:57)
Дата 11.09.2020 12:42:22

Re: Ну Вы...

>Надеюсь, о тотальном истреблении индейцев Мексики Вы писать не будете.

>И вспомним судьбу могикан.
- - -
вы мне не ответили, куда делись индейцы, ранее проживавшие на территориях Аргентины и Уругвая.

Я Ирбису уже ответил, что все колониальные нации постарались от души. Англосаксов и правда любить не за что. Испанцев и пр. - тоже.

В сварах между ними побеждал сильнейший. Сочувствия у меня лично к испанцам или аргентинцам нет.

Предоставляю вам последнее слово в этой плодотворной дискуссии.

С ув.,

ВК
От Skvortsov
К VLADIMIR (11.09.2020 12:42:22)
Дата 11.09.2020 14:41:34

Re: Ну Вы...


>вы мне не ответили, куда делись индейцы, ранее проживавшие на территориях Аргентины и Уругвая.

В Аргентине декрет о положении коренных народов был принят в 1813 году. Объявил индейцев "совершенно свободными людьми, наделенными равными правами со всеми остальными гражданами". Поэтому они ассимилировались, статистика Аргентины учитывает только два типа населения - граждане и неграждане.

Если говорить о судьбе индейцев Пампы, то часть переселили, часть вытеснили обратно в Чили, откуда они и пришли.

Из Чили пришли арауканы и покорили местных индейцев – пуэльче в Пампе и техуэльче в Патагонии. Стали нападать на поселения европейцев, угонять скот и захватывать людей.
Аргентинцы решили провести операцию по захвату пампы. Речь шла о территории 20 000 кв. лиг = около 450 тыс. кв. км. Территория Испании - 505 тыс. км.
На территории пампы проживало:

Alfred Hasbrouck
The Conquest of the Desert

As to the numbers of Indians existing during the midnineteenth century we have fairly accurate information. Colonel Mansilla estimates that among the Ranqueles there were
four to six hundred toldos and that each toldo housed at least ten people and often as many as thirty. In addition to the three caciques, Mariano Rosas, Baigarrota, and Ramon, there were two lesser captains, Epumer Rosas and Yanquetruz, and seventy subordinate chieftains. Hence, since each leader and chieftain had an immediate following of from ten to thirty warriors, there would be in all, Mansilla estimates, 1,300 warriors-probably a conservative estimate.

It may, therefore, safely be said that there were not over 4,000 warriors to be contended with and that the total population of Pampas Indians in the regions north of the Rio Negro was approximately 12,000. These included 600 to 800 Christian captives, for each toldo contained at least one such captive.

Первая состояла в подготовке вторжения.

The second phase of the plan began on the morning of April 6, 1879, when General Roca with his staff, accompanied by missionaries and newspaper correspondents, left Buenos
Aires for Azul on a special train.

Whenever it was possible to do so, an effort was made to capture rather than kill
a cacique so that he might be sent into exile with the women.

Since one of the most important missions of this division was to prevent the escape of the Indians into Chile or the crossing of any Araucanians from that country, it was necessary to explore every water course or other possible trail that led from the cordillera.

A signal victory was that of Lieutenant Colonel Aguilar who captured ten warriors
including Cumilas, second cacique of the band of Namuncura, sixty other Indians, and 102 horses.

May 25 1879, Independence Day was celebrated by the 1st Division on the Island of Choele-Choel with rejoicing that the most doubtful part of the campaign had already been successfully completed. Fourteen thousand Indians had been conquered, 480 Christians had been rescued from captivity and 15,000 square leagues of land had been opened to civilization.

Meanwhile, Lieutenant Colonels Hilario Lagos and Enrique Godoy of the 5th Division had been clearing the country of Indians who had slipped through the net and still remained
in thel lake region between Luan Lauquen and Nainco. They captured many horses and cattle which they sent to the remount station at Trenque Lauquen; and killed five Indians, captured 203, and released eleven Christians from captivity.

This state of affairs continued for about two years after Roca reported the conquest of the desert completed, but finally the commanding general at Choele-Choel determined to conclude matters. Accordingly, therefore, in November 1882, he sent the 2nd Division of the army into the Lake Nahuel Huapi regionA to clean all Indians, friendly as well as hostile, out of their hiding places in the mountains.

In this way all valleys and defiles were explored and not a single Indian was left in this zone of 2400 square leagues. The operations began November 26, 1882, and continued until the end of March, 1883. Three hundred and sixty four Indian warriors were killed, 1700 surrendered, or were taken prisoners, and more than 3000 were driven out. Captured cattle, horses, and mares were distributed to officers for the use of their troops or were divided among the friendly Indians. All Indians who surrendered were given horses,
mares, and sheep. The line of the Andes was strengthened by the establishment of permanent fortifications. Thirteen blockhouses were built to guard the principal routes to Chile from Lake Nahuel Huapi to Pulmary.

The results of the Conquest of the Desert may be summed
up as follows:
1. The final pacification of the deserts on the south of the Re-
public.
2. The end of the war with the Indians, of the useless sacrifices y
the army, and of the insecurity of the populated frontiers
3. The end of stealing and carrying off of cattle to Chile; the end
of paying tribute to the Indian.
4. The liberation of hundreds of white captives held by the
Indians.
5. The revelation of the mysterious topography of the desert and
the taking possession f its unknown riches.
6. The addition of 20,000 square leagues of rich territory to the
republic and the settlement of those lands.
7. The encouragement f immigration nd colonization.
8. The designation as national territories of this region over the
ownership of which five provinces had disputed

Out of the lands acquired by the conquest of the desert, the senate and chamber of deputies by an act passed October 16, 1884, created the three territories of La Pampa,
Rio Negro, and Neuquén.
Of these territories La Pampa has an area of 145,907 square kilometers; Neuquen, 109,703 square kilometers; and Rio Nevro 196.695 square kilometers.

The president also said that out of the appropriations of $1,500,000 for the rescue of captives held by the Indians, only 300,000 to 400,000 pesos had been spent.

Вы спрашиваете, куда делись потомки менее 16 тыс. индейцев Пампы? Ассимилировались.