От swiss
К Вулкан
Дата 23.11.2015 15:58:07
Рубрики 11-19 век;

[2Вулкан] ?по осаде Пенсаколы

В сархивированной ветке про Войну за независимость упоминалось:

>На Карибском же ТВД британцы со дня на день ждали нападения на Ямайку, тогда как испанцы готовили решающий штурм Пенсаколы.
>Гальвес отплыл из Гаваны в феврале 1781 года имея 1467 солдат вместо обещанных 4 тысяч. Король Карлос запретил проводить ему штурм Пенсаколы с такими малыми силами, но Гальвес решил попробовать. Попутно он послал просьбы мэрам Нового Орлеана и Мобиле с просьбой вести к Пенсаколе все силы, какими они располагают.
>9 марта 2792 испанца при 24 орудиях осадили довольно сильную крепость Пенсакола, которая располагала 3000 солдат и 48 орудиями. Правда и у испанцев и у британцев были еще милиционеры и индейские союзники, но в осаде от них было мало толку.
>Несмотря на нападения дикарей и вылазки британцев кольцо вокруг города медленно сжималось, и через 2 месяца, 8 мая 1781 года Пенсакола была взята. Благодаря великолепной работе испанской артиллерии и инженеров потери испанцев были просто несопоставимы с потерями англичан – 74 человека убитыми и 198 раненными против примерно 700 убитыми и 1200 раненными у британцев. Кроме того, 1100 англичан попало в плен.

Меньшее количество испанцев осадило в крепости англичан, у которых было вдвое большее количество пушек, и с таким великолепным результатом. В чем скрывается секрет?
От Константин Дегтярев
К swiss (23.11.2015 15:58:07)
Дата 23.11.2015 17:05:57

Вероятно, секрет в подтасовке данных

Википедия со ссылкой на этот источник:
Davis Paul K. Besieged: 100 great sieges from Jericho to Sarajevo, Oxford University Press, USA

Дает совершенно иные потери:
Англичане: 102 убитых,105 раненых;1113 пленных. При этом 57 человек погибли одномоментно при взрыве порохового склада.
Испанцы: 74 убитых, 198 раненых

Вот в этом источнике:
Martín-Merás Luisa. “The Capture of Pensacola through Maps, 1781” in Legacy: Spain and the United States in the Age of Independence, 1763-1848. — Washington, DC: Smithsonian Institution, 2007.
утверждается, что число осаждавших доходило до 8000 чел., а осажденных, судя по числу пленных и убитых - около 1300 чел.
От Вулкан
К Константин Дегтярев (23.11.2015 17:05:57)
Дата 23.11.2015 20:24:13

Re: Вероятно, секрет...

Приветствую!

PENSACOLA 1781
Galvez' plan was to land in Santa Rosa
Island and attack the British battery in Siguenza
Point at the entrance of the bay. This could
facilitate the naval maneuver without risking a
crossed fire between Red Cliffs and Siguenza
forts. 1,315 troops landed in the night of 9 March
and initiated the advance towards Siguenza.
Surprisingly, and after a long march, the Spanish
realized that the fort was abandoned and in very poor conditions.! From some prisoners
taken the day after, the Spaniards learnt that Pensacola itself was defended by 1,800
soldiers.2
To force the entrance to the bay, the fleet faced two main problems: a sandbar
which prohibited the big warships from entering the bay, and the British artillery
batteries in the Red Cliffs Fort. Despite the efforts to lighten and reduce the draft of the
ships, the naval maneuver was still very dangerous and Calvo, the Navy Commander,
was reluctant to risk his ships. Galvez was also afraid of a change in. the weather that
could cause the fleet to sail off and abandon the troops ashore on Santa Rosa Island.
. Furthermore, every new day in that dangerous coast without forcing the entrance to the
bay meant less food and water, and more chan~es of having to face the expected British
reinforcements from Jamaica. Finally, on the afternoon of 18 March, Galvez made the
decision to force the entrance aboard the Galveztown,3 together with the Valenzuela and
two cannon boats. The British artillery battery on Red Cliffs opened fire against the
small fleet commanded by Galvez, who stayed on the quarterdeck of the Galveztown,
where everybody could see him, throughoutthe naval maneuver. Once Siguenza Point
53
Siguenza Fort, whose excited soldiers had observed all the operation and cheered their
commander. At the end, the damages caused by the British artillery to the small fleet
were minimal,4 but what was definitely damaged was the pride of the Spanish Navy
officers within Calvo's fleet. s Finally, the day after, Calvo's fleet followed Galvez's
example and forced the entrance of the bay through the same track with a similar overall
result: light damage to some of the ships caused by the British artillery. Only Calvo
himself aboard the most powerful ship of the fleet, the 70 gun San Ramon, remained
outside of the bay, because of the draft of that ship. Finally, he sailed back to Havana.
On 22 March, Ezpeleta arrived to Aguero Point inside the bay, with the 900
soldiers reinforcement from Mobile. One day later, an 18 ship fleet from New Orleans
commanded by Aguirre, successfully entered the bay under the artillery fire from Red
Cliffs. As a result of these reinforcements, the ground forces in Aguero Point available
54
for the siege of Pensacola were finally comprised of 1,300 from Havana, 905 from
Mobile, and 1,348 from New Orleans.6
Since his arrival in 1779, Campbell realized that he had to improve the defenses of
Pensacola in order to resist a Spanish attack. He had built Fort George on a hill out of
Pensacola, and to protect the fort from the higher ground one kilometer to the
northwest, he constructed there the Queen's Redoubt. Between both, he would build the
circled Prince of Wales Redoubt.
The Spanish movement to the proximity of Fort George would illustrate how hard
and long the seizure of Pensacola was meant to be. Almost on a daily basis, the
expeditionary force suffered dozens of casualties, mainly as a result of the Indians
attacks to the camps and sporadic British skirmishes from the fort. In fact, Galvez
himself was wounded on 12 April in one of those skirmishes. Still, gradually, the siege
crept closer to the fort.
However, unexpected good news would reinforce the morale of the expeditionary
force. On 19 April, a mighty fleet appeared over the horizon, making everybody to think
that the expected British Fleet from Jamaica had arrived. But fortune was on Galvez'
side, for what had arrived at Pensacola was Solano's Fleet with dozens of transports and
1,600 soldiers, most of them veterans from the failed siege of Gibraltar. Furthermore,
Solano brought 15 warships to protect the entrance to Pensacola Bay, hence the British
navalthreat was no longer a concern for Galvez. In conjunction with Solano's Fleet,
four French frigates with 725 soldiers arrived to support the operation.7
Galvez' ground forces increased considerably with those reinforcements,
complemented by 1,700 marines and sailors from Solano's Fleet. He now had nearly
8,000 men. Around of the Bay the Allies strength added up to 14,000 men well armed
and supported, with a mighty fleet protecting the bay.
55
Galvez, advised by Cagigal and Alderete, planned a simultaneous combined
bombardment using the ground artillery in the trenches and the naval gunfire from the
bay. The British, realizing the danger of the situation, conducted a counterattack over
the trenches at dawn on 4 May, surprising the Spaniards and causing more than 40
casualties but to no ultimate effects. The gunfire exchange continued for several more
days until the morning of the 8, when a Spanish grenade blew up the British powder
magazine on the Half-Moon, killing more than one hundred and Jacilitating the seizure
of that fort. 8
With the Spanish heavy artillery positioned in the high ground on Half-Moon Fort,
and the Navy gunfire from the bay, Campbell realized that his situation was
unsustainable. Hence, in a hopeless situation and having fought bravely, Campbell
raised the white flag over Fort George at 1500 8 May 1781. Two days later, the
capitulation took place, surrendering all Western Florida to the Spanish Crown.9 After
the Spanish victory in Pensacola, the peace negotiations would intensify in Paris,
though operations would still continue for almost two years on both sides of the Atlantic
Ocean.
The siege of Pensacola should be considered one of the most important actions of
the war against Britain in North America, compared to the main actions of the War of
Independence, by the number of troops involved, the days of trench work, and the
number of casualties and prisoners taken.
56
TABLE 1
ORDER OF BATTLE OF THE SIEGE OF PENSACOLA (March 20 - May 10, 1781)
SPANISH AND ALLIES TOTAL = 7.874 men
Line Infantry Regiments
Rey .419 men
Prfncipe 257 men
Navarra 672 men
Soria .495 men
Flandes .424 men
Hibernia .467 men
Guadalajara 328 men
Espana .482 men
Aragon 287 men
Mal1orca, Toledo (Navy chips crew) 49 or 60 men
2° de Vo1untarios de Cata1una 331 men
Fijo Regiments
Fijo de La Habana 244 men
Fijo de La Luisiana 149 men
Escuadron de Dragones (M6jico, Espana, Habana y Luisiana) 97 men
Milicias de La Habana (pardos y morenos libres) 340 men
Milicias de Orleans (Id.) 188 men
Carabineros de Orleans 13 men
Artillery Spanish and French, Army and Navy : 503 men
Marine Infantry Brigade (4 battalions) 1.394 men
Fortification Sappers (Havana) 107 men
Indians from Chatuez y Talapuez tribes .. 60 - 100 men
French Division
Forces from Regiments:
Agenois, Orleans, Poitou, Gatinois, Cambresis, du Cap 517 men
BRITISH TOTAL = 2.496 men
Regiment XVI 135 men
Regiment LXVII 7 men
Regiment LX 200 men
Regiment of Waldeck nr. 3 .351 men
Artillery 62 men
Maryland Royalists .300 men
Pennsylvania Royalists 241 men
West Florida Royal Forresters 600 men
Black volunteers 300 men
Dragoons of Maryland and sailors .300 men
Indians Cries (Creeks), Chicasas, 300 a 500 men
Source: Jose Manuel Guerrero Acosta. Forgotten Soldiers from the Other Shore ofthe Ocean (Madrid:
Spanish Army Institute of Military History and Culture, 2006),

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От Вулкан
К swiss (23.11.2015 15:58:07)
Дата 23.11.2015 16:46:02

Re:[2Вулкан] ?по осаде Пенсаколы

Приветствую!

Общее количество с учетом милиции и индейцев у испанцев было больше.
Сейчас уже не помню, но можете глянуть в Вики, 5 тыс против 3.5 вроде.

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