ВИФ2 NE : Ветка : Не-а. Это Сыроватка , там бомбили. (-)

От	Алтын
К	panzeralex
Дата	06.09.2013 15:58:41
Рубрики	WWII; Танки;

Не-а. Это Сыроватка , там бомбили. (-)

От	Skvortsov
К	Алтын (06.09.2013 15:58:41)
Дата	06.09.2013 16:48:13

Эйке Миддельдорф, "Русская кампания: тактика и вооружение"

1. РУССКИЕ ПАРТИЗАНЫ
Возникновение партизанского движения

...........
Крупного успеха добились партизаны также в июле 1943 г., когда ими на станции Осиповичи был уничтожен эшелон с горюче-смазочными материалами, два эшелона с боеприпасами и чрезвычайно ценный эшелон с танками «Тигр».
.........

От	Алтын
К	Skvortsov (06.09.2013 16:48:13)
Дата	06.09.2013 21:25:08

А в оригинале отрывок есть ? Точно там про Тигры сказано? (-)

От	Skvortsov
К	Алтын (06.09.2013 21:25:08)
Дата	06.09.2013 22:45:30

Вот такое есть:

http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/20240/20-240c.htm

4. Attacks on Rail Communications

Throughout the Russian campaign the railroads remained the chief carrier of supply. German logisticians had hoped that the lines would be available and had constantly emphasized their vital importance to all operations in the East. But nobody had counted on so early an

Page 25

operation of the railroads as was actually possible in the course of the campaign. What this meant to all German movements was clearly recognized during the first muddy season in the fall of 1941, as well as during the winter that followed. Without the railroads all German supply operations would simply have come to a standstill. German motor vehicles, exposed to excessive wear and tear over roads in poor condition, were deteriorating rapidly, so that a considerable proportion of the motor tonnage was soon unavailable for the movement of supplies.

The enemy did not take long to recognize his advantage; the number of railroad demolitions through partisan action increased steadily. The methods employed varied with the purpose the enemy wanted to accomplish. Daily interruptions of traffic were caused by rail demolitions for which the Russians used various types of mines.( Ed: See also DA Pamphlet No. 20-230, Russian Combat Methods in World War II, pp. 60ff.) Pressure- and vibration-type mines were placed in the track, to be detonated by the locomotives. To destroy particularly valuable supplies, such as gasoline in tank cars, the partisans used mines with pull-type fuses which were set off by remote control. Retreating Russian forces often buried mines with long-delay fuses, under the tracks where they might blow up as much as 3 months later. Mines with simple delay-type fuses were also employed to avoid hitting the previously mentioned protective cars ahead of the locomotive. In order to escape the mine detectors, nearly all of these mines were placed in wooden containers, and their construction was of the most primitive type; some of them consisted of no more than a small package of explosives with a safety fuze. Occasionally, even magnetic mines were used. They served as means of sabotage in workshops and on standing trains and were mostly equipped with delay-type fuses.

In the fall of 1943 four supply trains were destroyed simultaneously at the Osipovichi railroad station, and all traffic on that line had to be suspended for a long time. Investigations revealed that a magnetic mine had been attached, presumably by a native railroad worker, to one of the tank cars of a gasoline train. When the mine went off

it set the car on fire, and the spreading blaze soon enveloped the entire train. An ammunition train standing nearby was ignited and blent sky high, setting fire in turn to an adjacent forage train. Finally, a fourth train loaded with "Tiger" tanks suffered the same fate and also burned out completely. The shortage of personnel as well as the lack of extra locomotives made it impossible to save even part of the trains by removing individual cars. Moreover, the explosion of the ammuni-

Page 26

tion train had caused considerable damage to many of the switches, so that the line itself was no longer in operating condition.

http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/20240/20-2403.html

От	Алтын
К	Skvortsov (06.09.2013 22:45:30)
Дата	07.09.2013 11:25:24

Спасибо! (-)

От	Алтын
К	Skvortsov (06.09.2013 16:48:13)
Дата	06.09.2013 19:09:10

Только чьи это Тигры? Следов не нахожу. (-)

От	panzeralex
К	Алтын (06.09.2013 19:09:10)
Дата	06.09.2013 19:14:50

может 505 ТТБ? (-)

От	Алтын
К	panzeralex (06.09.2013 19:14:50)
Дата	06.09.2013 19:29:01

таких потерь у него нет. Только в 44-м эшелонами терял. (-)

От	panzeralex
К	Алтын (06.09.2013 19:29:01)
Дата	06.09.2013 20:07:00

Re: таких потерь...

Приветствую!
да уж на 505 ТТБ не похоже
это я так, предположил, неудачно

если это не 505 ТТБ, то предложи свой вариант их возможной принадлежности, можно методом исключения
скажем - в Осиповичах были Тигры не из 505 ТТБ и не из ВГ, продолжи список
С уважением Panzeralex

От	Алтын
К	panzeralex (06.09.2013 20:07:00)
Дата	06.09.2013 21:24:31

пересмотрел Шнейдера

Приветствую всех!

>скажем - в Осиповичах были Тигры не из 505 ТТБ и не из ВГ, продолжи список

наверное все таки 505 ттб. Замысловато он описывает отправку в заводской ремонт 10 Тигров , потерянных в июле. Списаны они в августе , но видать пост-фактум. На Осиповичи мог быть эшелон из/в 505 ттб , остальные три батальона и две роты вряд ли получали/отправляли танки через Осиповичи.

А в оригинале отрывок из Миддельдорфа есть ? Точно там про Тигры сказано?

>С уважением Panzeralex
Со всем почтением.

От	panzeralex
К	Алтын (06.09.2013 21:24:31)
Дата	06.09.2013 22:37:08

не 505

Приветствую!
505 ТТБ по дате не подходит, в основном его танки отправлялись на ремонт в Германию после события, произошедшего в Осиповичах,
так что это никак не могли быть Тигры 505 ТТБ.

мне все больше кажется подходящей версия про 11-ю роту тп ВГ.

>Со всем почтением.
С уважением Panzeralex

От	panzeralex
К	Skvortsov (06.09.2013 16:48:13)
Дата	06.09.2013 18:19:32