От	Евгений Путилов
К	All
Дата	03.10.2001 14:58:02
Рубрики	Локальные конфликты; Политек;

?? по интервью О. бен Ладена.

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Доброго здравия!

Мне тут сказали, что он обозвал американцев трусами, которые боятся прийти в Афганистан к нему для открытого боя, а предпочитают прятаться в бронированных кабинах летящих на высоте самолетов. То ли дело русские: взорвали у них несколько домов, и они не тянули время, а прямо пришли в Чечню биться. Потеряли много людей, конечно, но и наших шахидов легло много.

Это как расценивать? Как косвенное признание нас сильным врагом? Или Ладен специально нас в пример американцам приводит, чтоб попытаться ущемить побольнее, принудить их к решениям воевать по выгодным для Ладена сценариям? Или и то, и другое?

Сам не слышал и не читал этого инвертю, знаю о нем "из третьих рук". Может кто на форуме поточнее что знает?


С уважением, Евгений Путилов. e_putilov@mail.ru

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От	Евгений Путилов
К	Евгений Путилов (03.10.2001 14:58:02)
Дата	04.10.2001 18:00:11

Всем спасибо.(-)

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От	А.Никольский
К	Евгений Путилов (03.10.2001 14:58:02)
Дата	03.10.2001 15:20:53

Это не интервью, а известная ошибка сайта иносми.ру(+)

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На форуме обсуждалось, сайт, приведя этот матерьял, анонсировал его как интервью, но это был фельетон Томаса Фридмана июльский еще из Нью-Йорк-Таймс. Им звонили, говорили, сколько народу на это купились, они говорят - а мы-то причем. Так и не отметили жирным шрифтом, что это фельетон.
С уважением, А.Никольский

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От	А.Никольский
К	А.Никольский (03.10.2001 15:20:53)
Дата	03.10.2001 15:39:02

И вопрос о реальном интервью Бенладена CNN в 98 году

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Я помню, как в июне 98 года по Си-Эн-Эн анонсировалось и потом вроде прозвучало реальное интервью с Бенладеном, где он подробно изложил свои цели. Никто не видел? Это чуть ли не первый случай, когда его фамилия всплыла в мировом масштабе. Вскоре после этого взорвали посольства в Кении и Танзании, в чем его обвиняют.
С уважением, А.Никольский

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От	Vadim
К	А.Никольский (03.10.2001 15:39:02)
Дата	04.10.2001 20:09:45

Re: И вопрос...

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Привeтствую

Tут было интeрвью с интeрвьюeром ;), коррeспондeнтом ABC по-моeму, aмeрикaнского, который Бин-Лaдeнa интeрвьюировaл, вот он рaсскaзaл, что у товaрищa мaния тaкaя - "попeрeд" своиx громкиx aкций выступaть с зaявaми и угрозaми, вродe по всeм громким aктaм это нaблюдaлось. Он покa молчит? Ничeго нового нe зaявлял покa? - Ну и xорошо, поживeм eщe. Ну прям стиxи дeтскиe о Taрaкaнищe. "Tы чeго пaукa боишься, он во сколько тeбя мeньшe - пусть он боится".

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От	Михаил Лукин
К	А.Никольский (03.10.2001 15:39:02)
Дата	03.10.2001 15:53:57

Вот куски из него...

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>Я помню, как в июне 98 года по Си-Эн-Эн анонсировалось и потом вроде прозвучало реальное интервью с Бенладеном, где он подробно изложил свои цели. Никто не видел?

Ну, Вы, Алексей, озадачили. Еле нашел... :-) Enjoy www.nexis.com ! (всем очень рекомендую, хотя ресурс платный)
Вот повтор интервью, щас полное поищу...

TYPE: PACKAGE
SECTION: News; Domestic
LENGTH: 1862 words
HEADLINE: Who is Osama bin Laden?
GUESTS: LEXIS-NEXIS Related Topics Full Article Related Topics Overview

BYLINE: Joie Chen, Peter Arnett

HIGHLIGHT:
Who is Osama bin Laden? He's a multimillionaire who helped Afghanistan repel the Soviet invasion. But he's also the man U.S. officials claim is the world's number-one sponsor of terrorism.

BODY:

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: Who is Osama bin Laden? He's a multimillionaire who helped Afghanistan repel the Soviet invasion. But he's also the man U.S. officials claim is the world's number-one sponsor of terrorism.

Last year, CNN's Peter Arnett traveled to Afghanistan to interview Osama bin Laden. We present excerpts now from his report, which first aired on CNN's "IMPACT" program in May of 1997. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER ARNETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amidst these remote mountains of Afghanistan, are the various hiding places of one of the world's most wanted men: Osama bin Laden.

OSAMA BIN LADEN (through translator): We declared a jihad, a holy war, against the United States government because it is unjust, criminal and tyrannical.

ARNETT: The U.S. State department calls him one of the most significant financial sponsors of Islamic extremism in the world.

AMBASSADOR PHILIP WILCOX, STATE DEPARTMENT: He is a major terrorist financier and with a large fortune of his own, he has bankrolled terrorist groups and individuals all over the world.

ARNETT: The State Department links the 41-year-old bin Laden to Ramzi Yousef: alleged mastermind of the World Trade Center bombing, New York. An attempted bombing of U.S. Troops in 19192: Yemen. Terrorist training camps in Sudan and Afghanistan. Islamic terrorists groups in Egypt and Algeria.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Especially those Islamic fundamentalists that are looking for a hero and Mr. bin Laden fit the bill.

ARNETT: In western intelligence circles, bin Laden is best known for this document: a call for jihad or holy war against the thousands of U.S. soldiers now stationed in Saudi Arabia. That call to jihad came after two bombings of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia.

The first in Riyadh in 1995, seven dead. The second in Dhahran (ph) in 1996: 19 dead, hundreds injured. To support his holy war, sources estimate bin Laden has up to half a billion dollars. To execute the jihad, bin Laden has thousands of committed followers inside Saudi Arabia.

DR. SAAD AL-FAHIH, SAUDI OPPOSITION: They are either direct followers takes direct command and order from bin Laden or they are small (INAUDIBLE) groups who believe bin Laden's a godfather, his message is almost like a religious order.

ARNETT: Most of those followers fought alongside bin Laden in an earlier jihad, the 1980s war in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union. Afghanistan drew thousands of volunteers like these from around the Islamic world. They learned how to handle weapons and explosives. They became known as the Afghan Arab.

Osama bin Ladin left his comfortable life in Saudi Arabia to become a leader of the Afghan Arabs. Informed estimates put their numbers between 12,000 and 20,000 men. Bin Laden's victories against the soviets were well publicized in Saudi Arabia. After the Afghan War, bin Laden became disillusioned with the Saudi regime, deeming it insufficiently Islamic. He moved to Sudan. Five years later, under U.S. and Saudi pressure, bin Laden was expelled from Sudan.

(on camera): Mr. bin Laden, you have declared a jihad against the United States. Can you tell us why?

BIN LADEN (through translator): The U.S. government has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal through its support of the Israeli occupation of Palestine. We believe the U.S. is directly responsible for those killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. Due to its subordination to the Jews the arrogance of the United States regime has reached a point where they occupied Arabia, the holiest place of the Muslims who are more than one billion people in the world today. For this and other acts of aggression and injustice, we have declared jihad against the U.S.

ARNETT: Is a jihad directed against the U.S. government or United States troops in Arabia? What about U.S. civilians in Arabia or the people of the United States?

BIN LADEN: We have focused our declaration of jihad on striking at the U.S. soldiers inside Arabia, the country of the two holy places, Mecca and Medina. In our religion it is not permissible for any non Muslim to stay in Arabia. Therefore, even though American civilians are not targeted in our plan, they must leave. We do not guarantee their safety.

GRAHAM FULLER, FORMER CIA OFFICIAL: When this guy delivers his statements, attacking the U.S. presence or his call for jihad, he is justifying these actions in very explicit Koranic-Islamic terms with a long -- it's like a careful legal brief that he's drawn up here.

ARNETT (voice-over): It is an irony of bin Laden's present war against the United States that he and the U.S. had the same objective during the 1980s: driving the soviets out of Afghanistan.

The Afghan War changed bin Laden. He saw a lightly armed guerrilla force defeat a superpower. BIN LADEN (through translator): In this jihad, the biggest benefit was the myth of the superpower was destroyed, not only in my mind, but also in the minds of all muslins.

ARNETT: The ruling government bin Laden is now challenging is his own, the Saudi royal family that has dominated Arabia for six decades.

BIN LADEN: By being loyal to the U.S. regime, the Saudi regime has committed an act against Islam. When this main foundation was violated, other corrupt acts followed in every aspect of the country, economic, social and government services.

ARNETT: Bin Laden is part of a growing opposition movement from those who oppose the Saudi regime peacefully to those who advocate the use of violence.

The State Department downplays any threat posed by the Saudi opposition.

WILCOX: The Saudi regime has maintained a high level of continuity and stability for many decades. I don't think he's a real threat to the Saudi regime. He's a publicist; he's created a mystique around himself, but this man is also a pariah and a (INAUDIBLE).

ARNETT: Nineteen ninety-two: some 30,000 U.S. troops are dispatched on a humanitarian mission to Somalia: a Muslim nation embroiled in famine and civil war. U.S. Soldiers are caught in the crossfire. Nineteen are killed. In his first admission to a U.S. news organization, bin Laden says crabs who fought in Afghanistan, men who look to him as a leader, killed those U.S. troops.

BIN LADEN: Resistance started against the American invasion because muslins did not believe the U.S. allegations that they came to save the Somalis. With Allah's grace, Muslims in Somalia cooperated with Arab holy warriors who were in Afghanistan. Together, they killed large numbers of American occupation troops.

WILCOX: He's brazenly said that his people were responsible for that. So we take him at his word.

ARNETT: It was not the first attack on U.S. troops linked to bin Laden. The U.S. government says that bin Laden forces attempted to bomb U.S. servicemen on their way to Somalia. The bomb killed two, but no U.S. Soldiers. Then there's the possibility of a bin Laden connection to the two bombings in Saudi Arabia at Riyadh in 1995 and Dhahran in 1996 that left 24 U.S. troops dead.

BIN LADEN: It's no secret that during the two explosions I was not in Saudi Arabia, but I have great respect for the people who did this. They are heroes. What they did is a big honor that I missed participating in.

ARNETT: The Saudi government accused these Saudi citizens of planting the Riyadh bomb. Three of the four men were Afghan crabs who fought in the war against the soviets. They acknowledged their role, probably under duress.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): According to experience in explosives, which I gained during the Afghan War, I assembled the bombs in car.

ARNETT: They also acknowledge bin Laden's teachings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We received pamphlets from Osama bin Laden and others.

ARNETT: Then there is the bombing of the U.S. Air Force barracks in Dhahran. The Saudi government has accused a group of dissidents back by Iran: a charge Iran denies. The State Department acknowledges that the jury is still out on the Dhahran bombing. The U.S. government continues to believe that bin Laden supports terrorists activities throughout the middle east.

BIN LADEN (through translator): The U.S. today has set a double standard, calling whoever goes against its injustice a terrorist. It wants to occupy our countries, steal our resources, impose agents upon us, to rule us and then wants us to agree to all this. If we refuse to do so, it says we are terrorists.

When Palestinian children throw stones against the Israeli occupation, the U.S. says they are terrorists. Whereas when Israel bomb the United Nations building in Lebanon, while it was full of children and women, the U.S. stopped any plan to condemn Israel.

ARNETT: The U.S. government also points to bin Laden's circumstantial ties to terrorism within the United States. Ramzi Yousef, alleged master minds of the World Trade Center bombing fled to Pashawa (ph), Pakistan where he lived in a guest house for Islamic radicals funded by bin Laden.

(on camera): Did Ramzi Yousef stay in your house in Pashawa?

BIN LADEN: I don't now Ramzi Yousef. What the American government and Pakistani intelligence is reporting isn't true.

ARNETT: Mr. Bin Laden, were you involved in financing the bombing of the World Trade Center in New York City?

BIN LADEN: I have no connection or relation with this explosion.

ARNETT (voice-over): Bin Laden is the 17th of 52 children, some of whom live in the United States. His father built the largest construction business in Saudi Arabia, the bin Laden Group, now worth at least $5 billion. In a statement to CNN, the family said it does not condone the reported activities of Osama bin Laden who has had no contact with or support from the family or its businesses since 1994. But U.S. officials believe bin Laden is still secretly supported by some members of his family and by sympathizers in the United States. U.S. officials have identified bin Laden supporters in New Jersey, New York and Michigan.

(on camera): Mr. bin Laden, if you had an opportunity to give a message to President Clinton, what would that message be?

BIN LADEN (through translator): Mentioning the name of Clinton provokes disgust and revulsion. The president mass a heart that knows no words, a heart that kills hundreds of children definitely knows no words. Our people in Arabia will send him messages without words because he does not understand words. If there is message that I may send through you, I address the mothers of the American troops. To these mothers I say, if they are concerned for their sons then let them object to the U.S. government's policy.

ARNETT: What are your future plans?

BIN LADEN: You'll see them and hear about them in the media. God willing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHEN: The strikes today at sites of Osama bin Laden's tied to those embassy bombings in East Africa. And on that, U.S. agents staged several raids today in Nairobi.

TO PURCHASE A VIDEOTAPE OF THIS PIECE, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS

С уважением, Лукин, http://www.kommersant.ru/chronicle/chronicle.html

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От	Михаил Лукин
К	Михаил Лукин (03.10.2001 15:53:57)
Дата	03.10.2001 16:03:45

А вот полностью

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1-я часть
http://www.mumia.org/wwwboard/messages/1591.html
2-я часть
http://www.mumia.org/wwwboard/messages/1592.html

Enjoy google!
С уважением, Лукин, http://www.kommersant.ru/chronicle/chronicle.html

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От	А.Никольский
К	Михаил Лукин (03.10.2001 16:03:45)
Дата	03.10.2001 16:42:43

Спасибо!(+)

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Открыто этот гражданин весьма умеренную программу выдвинул - отказ от войск в Саудии и поддержки Израиля.
С уважением, А.Никольский

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От	simba3
К	А.Никольский (03.10.2001 16:42:43)
Дата	03.10.2001 21:04:03

Re: Спасибо!

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>Открыто этот гражданин весьма умеренную программу выдвинул - отказ от войск в Саудии и поддержки Израиля.
>С уважением, А.Никольский

Леша! Ты лучше фатву возьми от того же года. Там те же цели вобщем. Зато какие средства достижения этих целей! Общий смысл - мочить амеров и сионистов всегда и везде.

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