От Captain Africa Ответить на сообщение
К Михаил Денисов Ответить по почте
Дата 30.12.2008 14:12:45 Найти в дереве
Рубрики Древняя история; Версия для печати

Re: мы рассатриваем...

>>>>Кресси это показатель того, что при похабном командовании всегда можно слить даже имея значительное преимущество.
>>>а не стратегичекую и даже не тактическую
>>>С технической ТЗ павеза не шибко мешала грамотно организованному огню.
>>Да, трудно мешать грамотно организованному огню находясь в телегах в обозе...
>а с чего вы решили, что генуезцы, вдруг и имеено при Креси, решили изменить своей обыденной тактике и пошли в атаку без павиз?

Я вот источник не назову, но во многих статьях упоминается что павезы остались в обозе. Но совершенно точно в хрониках описывается звездец с дисциплиной, когда собирались дать выдохшимся после марша войскам отдых и устроить битву на следующий день, а французы вместо этого поперли в драку, да еще и устроили побоище своим же. Бардак в кубе (цитирую перевод на английский хроник Жана Фруассара, нету у меня русского текста):

...finally the king said to [the] Moine, who pertained to the king of Bohemia and had done in his days so much, that he was reputed for one of the valiantest knights of the world: 'Sir, speak you.' Then he said: 'Sir, I shall speak, sith it pleaseth you, under the correction of my fellows. Sir, we have ridden and seen the behaving of your enemies: know ye for truth they are rested in three battles abiding for you. Sir, I will counsel you as for my part, saving your displeasure, that you and all your company rest here and lodge for this night: for or they that be behind of your company be come hither, and or your battles be set in good order, it will be very late, and your people be weary and out of array, and ye shall find your enemies fresh and ready to receive you. Early in the morning ye may order your battles at more leisure and advise your enemies at more deliberation, and to regard well what way ye will assail them; for, sir, surely they will abide you.'

Then the king commanded that it should be so done. Then his two marshals one rode before, another behind, saying to every banner: 'Tarry and abide here in the name of God and Saint Denis.' They that were foremost tarried, but they that were behind would not tarry, but rode forth, and said how they would in no wise abide till they were as far forward as the foremost: and when they before saw them come on behind, then they rode forward again, so that the king nor his marshals could not rule them. So they rode without order or good array, till they came in sight of their enemies: and as soon as the foremost saw them, they reculed then aback without good array, whereof they behind had marvel and were abashed, and thought that the foremost company had been fighting. Then they might have had leisure and room to have gone forward, if they had list: some went forth and some abode still. The commons, of whom all the ways between Abbeville and Cressy were full, when they saw that they were near to their enemies, they took their swords and cried: 'Down with them! let us slay them all.' There is no man, though he were present at the journey, that could imagine or shew the truth of the evil order that was among the French party, and yet they were a marvellous great number.